[POLITICS] Two Mass Shootings in 15 Hours, and O'Rourke on Trump

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Baffle2:
Just to point out, a lot of criminals in the UK actually do have guns, but most of us (non-criminals, non-law enforcement) don't have guns, and by and large, that kind of works out.

It helps that the restrictions we have on what types of weapons are available in what calibre allow guns for very specific legal activities to be purchased, but have limited utility as weapons of mass murder, and justification must be given for every firearm a person owns in order to get a certificate. For example, it's legal to own a semi automatic rifle, but only if it's in .22 longrifle calibre, and you can explain what you intend to shoot with it and where when applying for your license.

Not a left vs. right issue anymore.

I, for one, welcome legislation to increase background checks, so good on you Mr. Trump.

No, not like that! If the proposed legislative actions are in response to the recent mass shootings then marrying it to immigration reform is frankly stupid. Might as well marry it to laws regarding how to properly depose chemical waste for how much relation one of the subjects have to the other.

Bedinsis:
No, not like that! If the proposed legislative actions are in response to the recent mass shootings then marrying it to immigration reform is frankly stupid. Might as well marry it to laws regarding how to properly depose chemical waste for how much relation one of the subjects have to the other.

People can't shoot Hispanics if there are no Hispanics.

Truly a Rick & Morty fan's level of IQ.

Abomination:

Bedinsis:
No, not like that! If the proposed legislative actions are in response to the recent mass shootings then marrying it to immigration reform is frankly stupid. Might as well marry it to laws regarding how to properly depose chemical waste for how much relation one of the subjects have to the other.

People can't shoot Hispanics if there are no Hispanics.

Truly a Rick & Morty fan's level of IQ.

Yup. He's essentially endorsing shooting Hispanics at this point. It's like he's telling them that if they don't want to get shot, they shouldn't live in the US.

Adam Jensen:
Yup. He's essentially endorsing shooting Hispanics at this point. It's like he's telling them that if they don't want to get shot, they shouldn't live in the US.

Or, to encourage more restrictive immigration control, loyal republican voters should shoot more Hispanics.

Trump is blaming the internet, video games, and immigrants for this.

-Video Game blame at about 6:04

He definitely did not write this speech, but it has his BS touch to it. Parts of it are hypocritical, hell a good chunk of it sounds like it is a condemnation of Trump's government.

Leg End:

Gergar12:
Gun nut NRA

You're the first person to mention them in the thread, and I've been wanting to ask somebody this for a bit. The NRA of course has backing from various manufacturers and such, but they don't get all their monetary support from them. When you specifically target the NRA, are you not really targeting the American people in general? The ones that fund them and support their legal actions to protect Gun Rights. The NRA aren't even the only group of their kind. Ever heard of the Gun Owners of America? Second Amendment Foundation? The NRA, GOA, and 2AF are not singular entities, but essentially collectives of gun owners that put their money where they want their rights to be.

What do you think on that?

Targeting the ones who fund the NRA, yes. But very few Americans actually support them. You cannot use such a defense while also attacking portions of Americans.

09philj:

I think I'm having a Poe's Law moment because I can't tell if that cartoon is suggesting Trump directly killed people with his word bullets or is mocking that notion. Based on the less than flattering portrayal of Trump I'm leaning towards the former but it still seems like a pro-free speech caricature of what they think anti-free speech people believe.

Silent Protagonist:

09philj:

I think I'm having a Poe's Law moment because I can't tell if that cartoon is suggesting Trump directly killed people with his word bullets or is mocking that notion. Based on the less than flattering portrayal of Trump I'm leaning towards the former but it still seems like a pro-free speech caricature of what they think anti-free speech people believe.

A pro-speech caricature would either omit the blood or make the blood splatter be part of a joke.

CaitSeith:

Silent Protagonist:

09philj:

I think I'm having a Poe's Law moment because I can't tell if that cartoon is suggesting Trump directly killed people with his word bullets or is mocking that notion. Based on the less than flattering portrayal of Trump I'm leaning towards the former but it still seems like a pro-free speech caricature of what they think anti-free speech people believe.

A pro-speech caricature would either omit the blood or make the blood splatter be part of a joke.

I'm pretty sure it's not a pro free speech caricature but that's why I found it so...odd I guess for the lack of a better term because it so well encapsulated what free speech advocates mock about their opposition while apparently being genuine.

Saelune:
Anyone who says 'This is too soon' or 'Don't politicize this', you are the problem.

I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

Schadrach:

Saelune:
Anyone who says 'This is too soon' or 'Don't politicize this', you are the problem.

I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

The systems by which any society or belief system produces an individual who engages in a mass killing are political, and your attempts to preempt us crying "mental health" because he was apparently left wing are rather pathetic. If left wing rhetoric did indeed lie at the heart of the attack then it is up to us as left wingers to examine how left wing rhetoric may lead to violence and alter it to avoid similar atrocities in future, just as it is the responsibility of right wingers to call out hateful, violent rhetoric from their own side. Wouldn't you agree?

Schadrach:

Saelune:
Anyone who says 'This is too soon' or 'Don't politicize this', you are the problem.

I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

So is it one bad apple spoils the bunch, or one bad apple doesn't represent everyone? Cause I am covered either way.

He clearly should not have had access to guns.

Even crazy people can see that Trump is bad, doesnt excuse their own murdering of random innocents.

Just like how I feel bad when kids are bullied, but dont defend them when they shoot up the whole school. Making more victims isnt the solution.

09philj:

Schadrach:

Saelune:
Anyone who says 'This is too soon' or 'Don't politicize this', you are the problem.

I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

The systems by which any society or belief system produces an individual who engages in a mass killing are political, and your attempts to preempt us crying "mental health" because he was apparently left wing are rather pathetic. If left wing rhetoric did indeed lie at the heart of the attack then it is up to us as left wingers to examine how left wing rhetoric may lead to violence and alter it to avoid similar atrocities in future, just as it is the responsibility of right wingers to call out hateful, violent rhetoric from their own side. Wouldn't you agree?

Schadrach just wants to stick it to me personally.

Schadrach:

Saelune:
Anyone who says 'This is too soon' or 'Don't politicize this', you are the problem.

I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

Yes and no. Everything is political. Isolated incidents are talking points for evaluating larger societal trends. And specifically when it comes to incidents of public safety, everyone's going to be asking if the government could have done something to prevent it.

The Ohio shooting has nothing to do with Trump or immigration, but people are still pissed that the guy had access to a gun at all and where the legislation on that can be improved.

Schadrach:

I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

All mass shootings in the US are political because it's your politicians that let you keep doing it to each other. In this case one political side is better than the other, but, not secretly, I think they're both a bit shit.

Silent Protagonist:
I think I'm having a Poe's Law moment because I can't tell if that cartoon is suggesting Trump directly killed people with his word bullets or is mocking that notion. Based on the less than flattering portrayal of Trump I'm leaning towards the former but it still seems like a pro-free speech caricature of what they think anti-free speech people believe.

It's clearly implying that Trump's words stoke violence, but when violence inspired by his rhetoric occurs he's quick as it gets to distance himself from it.

Schadrach:
I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

Given the evidence already available of the Dayton shooters's long history of rape and murder fantasies, his political leanings almost certainly don't matter that much.

Saelune:
Trump is blaming... video games...

Oh good grief.

It's amazing that shit still has any traction, but I guess he may as well throw as much shit at the wall as possible. He'll be right back to talking about Hispanic invasions, nuking America's enemies and punching journalists the minute he can raise a cheer.

Agema:

Indeed, quite the opposite: look no further than the US president.

Going to assume that's for the other way that could be read that I didn't intend, because it makes more sense that way. To that, I clarify what I meant as being that we, in this issue, are not taking action to address the heart of man, but we should be.

Neurotic Void Melody:
Why do these killers hardly ever get shot on sight after murdering so many people in cold blood while so many harmless, unarmed African-Americans are killed for nothing but twitchy paranoid excuses?

Because they're complete pussies and, in the event they don't blow their brains out, they tend to do everything they can to comply so nobody has the excuse to Judge Dredd their ass. In regards to unarmed African-Americans and twitching, varies from cop to cop. Some cops are just straight-up stupid and shoot you for merely informing them you have a firearm, which is what you're typically expected to do when pulled over by police. Other cases, it's not what's presented. Just going to leave this here to hopefully restore some of that faith in humanity. That, and it's a really good video on the subject you'd appreciate. Maybe.

Bedinsis:

Oh blow it out your ass, Donald.

Saelune:
Trump is blaming the internet, video games, and immigrants for this.

-Video Game blame at about 6:04

He definitely did not write this speech, but it has his BS touch to it. Parts of it are hypocritical, hell a good chunk of it sounds like it is a condemnation of Trump's government.

Same as above. Christ.

Saelune:
Targeting the ones who fund the NRA, yes. But very few Americans actually support them. You cannot use such a defense while also attacking portions of Americans.

Not really attacking any portions of Americans here, outside the very exclusive club of mass shooters that I don't think you'd classify as a group for the purpose of that statement. NRA/2AF/GOA funders put their money where their mouth is and support legal defense of the 2A. Not different from any other group that funds other organizations to protect other rights, especially where other organizations fall short on certain ones.

Baffle2:

All mass shootings in the US are political because it's your politicians that let you keep doing it to each other.

They're not our parents/God.

This is why I love video games.

I just stay inside and never go anywhere and therefore cannot be shot. I have grubhub and other delivery services to bring me food so i never have a reason to go outside.

thanks video game violence for keeping me safe and entertained.

Leg End:
They're not our parents/God.

Lucky you. If only they were half-way responsible law makers.

CritialGaming:
This is why I love video games.

I just stay inside and never go anywhere and therefore cannot be shot.

Well, not until you kill someone online and he phones a SWAT team to raid your house in revenge.

Leg End:
Going to assume that's for the other way that could be read that I didn't intend, because it makes more sense that way. To that, I clarify what I meant as being that we, in this issue, are not taking action to address the heart of man, but we should be.

Yes, given the context, it might not be clear. I do mean that the president of the USA encourages hate and violence.

CritialGaming:
This is why I love video games.

I just stay inside and never go anywhere and therefore cannot be shot. I have grubhub and other delivery services to bring me food so i never have a reason to go outside.

thanks video game violence for keeping me safe and entertained.

Be sure to order a bottle of vitamin D pills from time to time.

Agema:

CritialGaming:
This is why I love video games.

I just stay inside and never go anywhere and therefore cannot be shot.

Well, not until you kill someone online and he phones a SWAT team to raid your house in revenge.

Oh yeah i also don't play online pvp games. Only weeb RPG's thanks.

bluegate:
Be sure to order a bottle of vitamin D pills from time to time.

I drink plenty of milk :)

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio-gop-mass-shootings-trans-people-gay-marriage_n_5d481fbfe4b0acb57fcfe3e1

"The breakdown of the traditional American family (thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discuses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals (open borders); the acceptance of recreational marijuana; failed school policies (hello parents who defend misbehaving students); disrespect to law enforcement (thank you, Obama); hatred of our veterans (thank you, professional athletes who hate our flag and National Anthem); the Dem Congress, many members whom are open anti-Semitic; the culture, which totally ignores the importance of God and the church (until they elect a President); state officeholders, who have no interest whatsoever in learning about our Constitution and the Second Amendement; and snowflakes, who can't accept a duly-elected President"

Really doubling down on your public relations there aren't you lady?

Shadowstar38:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio-gop-mass-shootings-trans-people-gay-marriage_n_5d481fbfe4b0acb57fcfe3e1

"The breakdown of the traditional American family (thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discuses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals (open borders); the acceptance of recreational marijuana; failed school policies (hello parents who defend misbehaving students); disrespect to law enforcement (thank you, Obama); hatred of our veterans (thank you, professional athletes who hate our flag and National Anthem); the Dem Congress, many members whom are open anti-Semitic; the culture, which totally ignores the importance of God and the church (until they elect a President); state officeholders, who have no interest whatsoever in learning about our Constitution and the Second Amendement; and snowflakes, who can?t accept a duly-elected President"

Really doubling down on your public relations there aren't you lady?

That's quite a laundry list of people this particular author can't stand, isn't it?

CM156:
That's quite a laundry list of people this particular author can't stand, isn't it?

Funny how it's always someone else's fault. I guess introspection is for other people.

Schadrach:

Saelune:
Anyone who says 'This is too soon' or 'Don't politicize this', you are the problem.

I can't wait for you to look into the Dayton shooters political beliefs and suddenly decide he's not worth discussing any more, or that that specific shooting was definitely not political at all.

It's almost like one wrote a manifesto filled with conservative talking-points as to why he committed the atrocity, and the other has given absolutely zero indications of having an underlying political motivation behind why he committed the atrocity. That is not to say that the very act of a mass shooting isn't political. However, the motivations behind why an individual chooses to engage in such a behavior can be higher or lower on the "done for political reasons" scale.

Like, do you even context bro? Not everything is black or white, yes or no. This isn't the first time you've shown (purposely or not) a lack of ability to understand that.

If someone who loves vanilla ice cream shoots up an ice cream store after posting online about how "people who serve chocolate ice cream are evil," the (at its most innocent) correlation should probably be looked at.

That's different than someone who has a favorite flavor of strawberry shooting up a pizza place with no statements of motive. Could they have done it because they love strawberry ice cream so much? Sure, but there's no indications to substantiate that at this time; it's currently just as relevant as their shoe size or taste in music.

Baffle2:

Lucky you. If only they were half-way responsible law makers.

Hell man, I'd rather we have idiots that can't do anything over competent people that know how to fuck us over, then proceed to. Controlled idiocy!

Shadowstar38:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio-gop-mass-shootings-trans-people-gay-marriage_n_5d481fbfe4b0acb57fcfe3e1

"The breakdown of the traditional American family (thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discuses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals (open borders); the acceptance of recreational marijuana; failed school policies (hello parents who defend misbehaving students); disrespect to law enforcement (thank you, Obama); hatred of our veterans (thank you, professional athletes who hate our flag and National Anthem); the Dem Congress, many members whom are open anti-Semitic; the culture, which totally ignores the importance of God and the church (until they elect a President); state officeholders, who have no interest whatsoever in learning about our Constitution and the Second Amendement; and snowflakes, who can?t accept a duly-elected President"

Really doubling down on your public relations there aren't you lady?

Just gonna quote Sheriff Richard Jones from the same article:

"Those people aren't even buried yet and she came out with these comments. ... She should resign because she doesn't represent our party.
...
She doesn't represent me, she doesn't represent our community, she doesn't represent the state or the country."

And then the Ohio AG:

Leg End:

Bedinsis:
Tweet Snip for space

Oh blow it out your ass, Donald.

Saelune:
Trump is blaming the internet, video games, and immigrants for this.

Video Snip for space

-Video Game blame at about 6:04

He definitely did not write this speech, but it has his BS touch to it. Parts of it are hypocritical, hell a good chunk of it sounds like it is a condemnation of Trump's government.

Same as above. Christ.

Saelune:
Targeting the ones who fund the NRA, yes. But very few Americans actually support them. You cannot use such a defense while also attacking portions of Americans.

Not really attacking any portions of Americans here, outside the very exclusive club of mass shooters that I don't think you'd classify as a group for the purpose of that statement. NRA/2AF/GOA funders put their money where their mouth is and support legal defense of the 2A. Not different from any other group that funds other organizations to protect other rights, especially where other organizations fall short on certain ones.

Baffle2:

All mass shootings in the US are political because it's your politicians that let you keep doing it to each other.

They're not our parents/God.

Reconsidering your support of him?

Agema:

Saelune:
Trump is blaming... video games...

Oh good grief.

It's amazing that shit still has any traction, but I guess he may as well throw as much shit at the wall as possible. He'll be right back to talking about Hispanic invasions, nuking America's enemies and punching journalists the minute he can raise a cheer.

It should also be noted that Trump is very much politicizing this tragedy...to encourage more hate, in the same speech that he far too late is condemning bigotry and hate in a speech he clearly did not write. Surprised someone managed to get him to actually read a speech though.

He's blaming video games?! B..b..but I thought only LIBERALS did that! But he's our God Emperor! G[REDACTED] told me that Republicans are our allies in the culture war against ess jay dubyas! I'm so confused?!

Shadowstar38:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio-gop-mass-shootings-trans-people-gay-marriage_n_5d481fbfe4b0acb57fcfe3e1

"The breakdown of the traditional American family (thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discuses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals (open borders); the acceptance of recreational marijuana; failed school policies (hello parents who defend misbehaving students); disrespect to law enforcement (thank you, Obama); hatred of our veterans (thank you, professional athletes who hate our flag and National Anthem); the Dem Congress, many members whom are open anti-Semitic; the culture, which totally ignores the importance of God and the church (until they elect a President); state officeholders, who have no interest whatsoever in learning about our Constitution and the Second Amendement; and snowflakes, who can?t accept a duly-elected President"

Really doubling down on your public relations there aren't you lady?

I thought it was straight white men who were the oppressed ones?

I mean, this woman is almost literally hitting every single checkbox of why I criticize Republicans.

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