[Politics, I guess] Jeffrey Epstein found dead in his cell under mysterious circumstance.

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

I feel the simplest solution is that Epstein wanted to do himself in rather than face prison and whatever guards he had were happy to enable him, either for a payout or just for the satisfaction of knowing a child rapist was dead. As with all conspiracies, going to want evidence before I believe them

Dirty Hipsters:

Smart people - "The CIA killed him because they had been using him to gather blackmail on all of the rich super-elite and the moment he started talking it would have made those materials worthless for blackmailing purposes. Blackmail only works if people don't know about it."

This is the most likely scenario.

...Or rather, the CIA/intelligence agencies threatened to do horrible tortuous things to him if he went to trial, ensured that the materials needed for him to kill himself were available, and then paid the guards to look the other way and let the problem take care of itself.

Palindromemordnilap:
I feel the simplest solution is that Epstein wanted to do himself in rather than face prison and whatever guards he had were happy to enable him, either for a payout or just for the satisfaction of knowing a child rapist was dead. As with all conspiracies, going to want evidence before I believe them

Oh I agree completely. I do think however, if there is more documentation that could implicate powerful figures that they will do anything and everything within their powers to destroy it or get their hands on it. Who know, Epstein was such a freak, he could have taped everything for future viewing and have it stashed somewhere for all we know. There is no telling what is out there really with everything that went on and the sheer amount of this that supposedly occurred over the years and the numerous wealthy people he involved himself with. According to the depositions we have already though, he was not the only person involved with sexually abusing underage girls so I am sure more names will come up in this than already have.

Lil devils x:

Palindromemordnilap:
I feel the simplest solution is that Epstein wanted to do himself in rather than face prison and whatever guards he had were happy to enable him, either for a payout or just for the satisfaction of knowing a child rapist was dead. As with all conspiracies, going to want evidence before I believe them

Oh I agree completely. I do think however, if there is more documentation that could implicate powerful figures that they will do anything and everything within their powers to destroy it or get their hands on it. Who know, Epstein was such a freak, he could have taped everything for future viewing and have it stashed somewhere for all we know. There is no telling what is out there really with everything that went on and the sheer amount of this that supposedly occurred over the years and the numerous wealthy people he involved himself with.

If he had stashed some implicating documentation though, surely killing him would be the worst thing to do? Not like its going to kill the investigation, might even increase it depending on how suspicious they find the death. And if you've got enough clout to have a guy assassinated in his jail cell you've got enough to have some evidence quietly vanished so Epstein's claims go unfounded and weaken his case

Lil devils x:

Saelune:
I find it funny that right-wingers think we worship Bill Clinton. But then, many right-wingers often tell me how it surprises them how consistent I am in my views. Like, you know you don't HAVE to be a hypocrite, right?

If Bill is one of Epstein's pedo friends, he should go to jail too, along with Trump and whoever else.

They should, but you and I both know they won't.

The problem is waiting for a corrupt system to un-corrupt itself.

Palindromemordnilap:

Lil devils x:

Palindromemordnilap:
I feel the simplest solution is that Epstein wanted to do himself in rather than face prison and whatever guards he had were happy to enable him, either for a payout or just for the satisfaction of knowing a child rapist was dead. As with all conspiracies, going to want evidence before I believe them

Oh I agree completely. I do think however, if there is more documentation that could implicate powerful figures that they will do anything and everything within their powers to destroy it or get their hands on it. Who know, Epstein was such a freak, he could have taped everything for future viewing and have it stashed somewhere for all we know. There is no telling what is out there really with everything that went on and the sheer amount of this that supposedly occurred over the years and the numerous wealthy people he involved himself with.

If he had stashed some implicating documentation though, surely killing him would be the worst thing to do? Not like its going to kill the investigation, might even increase it depending on how suspicious they find the death. And if you've got enough clout to have a guy assassinated in his jail cell you've got enough to have some evidence quietly vanished so Epstein's claims go unfounded and weaken his case

I would think so too. That is why I think it is more likely he did commit suicide.

Unless I see some evidence he was actually willing to give up other people, I don't think it would have been in any of their interests to have him killed. Of course if he has stuff stored somewhere that only he could access even in the event of his death though, it would have been better having him killed. We have yet to see if he had anything that was to be made public in the event of his own death as "insurance" for what he knew about other people though. This guy was tied up with so many people and shady activities there really is no telling at this point. Just have to wait and see what comes out.

Although I don't think it actually takes that much clout to have someone killed in jail, I don't think that is all that uncommon as we have plenty of shady cops and prison guards that have been on the take for generations.Often the type of people who benefit from the sort of job of working in a prison in a horrible environment and tragic pay are also the type of people who make money on the side...

That is why so many mob, cartels, gangs and other criminals have infiltrated the prison system over the years as it is.

for example:
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/05/21/former-texas-prison-sergeant-set-for-trial-in-inmates-death/
https://www.thestate.com/news/special-reports/article226466295.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling
https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/last-16-corrupt-correctional-officers-convicted-federal-racketeering-conspiracy-maryland

Saelune:

Lil devils x:

Saelune:
I find it funny that right-wingers think we worship Bill Clinton. But then, many right-wingers often tell me how it surprises them how consistent I am in my views. Like, you know you don't HAVE to be a hypocrite, right?

If Bill is one of Epstein's pedo friends, he should go to jail too, along with Trump and whoever else.

They should, but you and I both know they won't.

The problem is waiting for a corrupt system to un-corrupt itself.

Waiting is why it is only getting worse. People have become complacent and always expect other people to solve the problems rather than have enough good people step up and try to resolve it. Those who want the positions of power that are required to do something about it are usually the type of people who want the position of power to exploit it not actually fix it and people keep electing the worst of the worst rather than actually voting for someone who will help resolve the problem because they would rather believe fiction over fact. They keep people bickering over nonsense so they can go about screwing everyone over and getting away with anything and everything under the sun.

Lil devils x:

Palindromemordnilap:

Lil devils x:
Oh I agree completely. I do think however, if there is more documentation that could implicate powerful figures that they will do anything and everything within their powers to destroy it or get their hands on it. Who know, Epstein was such a freak, he could have taped everything for future viewing and have it stashed somewhere for all we know. There is no telling what is out there really with everything that went on and the sheer amount of this that supposedly occurred over the years and the numerous wealthy people he involved himself with.

If he had stashed some implicating documentation though, surely killing him would be the worst thing to do? Not like its going to kill the investigation, might even increase it depending on how suspicious they find the death. And if you've got enough clout to have a guy assassinated in his jail cell you've got enough to have some evidence quietly vanished so Epstein's claims go unfounded and weaken his case

I would think so too. That is why I think it is more likely he did commit suicide.

Very much doubt that. If Epstein implicated others when testified under oath than even the mere suggestion would be more harmful than any fabricated evidence that would absolve whoever is implicated. Say Epstein could indulge his sick fantasies and live the billionaire lifestyle in exchange for specific information from his network then such a story would blow up in international news media. No intelligence service would want that even if it could never be substantiated by Epstein.

I would be very surprised if Epstein's autopsy report would ever become public record or that any documents confiscated from his possessions wouldn't have SCI designations exempting it from federal investigation. In other words, I would be very surprised if his entire 'suicide' isn't just swept under the rug and quickly forgotten.

CrazyGirl17:
It does seem rather suspicious... but if he was guilty, I can't bring myself to feel sorry for him.

I feel sorry for his victims, because they deserve to see justice done and the person who wronged them sent down in a courtroom, which will now never happen.

Secondly, people like Epstein off themselves because they dread the humiliation of their downfall. By killing themselves, they are therefore taking what is, for them, the easy way out.

So fuck him doubly: the selfish, vile, shit of a human.

My problem is that Epstein was not the only criminal here. Whether he was assissinated, helped or did it himself, all of his associates got away scott free

trunkage:
My problem is that Epstein was not the only criminal here. Whether he was assissinated, helped or did it himself, all of his associates got away scott free

So fun fact. In 1974 the headmaster of the Dalton school, a private high-school in new York for Ivy league students, resigned. During his time he appointed then college drop-out Jeffrey Epstine to teach several of the girls only classes.
That headmaster? Donald Barr. Father of Attorney General William Barr, who was personally tutored by Epstine as a child.

Silentpony:

trunkage:
My problem is that Epstein was not the only criminal here. Whether he was assissinated, helped or did it himself, all of his associates got away scott free

So fun fact. In 1974 the headmaster of the Dalton school, a private high-school in new York for Ivy league students, resigned. During his time he appointed then college drop-out Jeffrey Epstine to teach several of the girls only classes.
That headmaster? Donald Barr. Father of Attorney General William Barr, who was personally tutored by Epstine as a child.

And of course Trump's Labor Secretary resigned last month due to his involvement in getting Epstein off easy from his previous charges.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-jeffrey-epstein-acosta/trumps-labor-secretary-acosta-resigns-amid-epstein-case-idUSKCN1U71TF

This on top of the already documented numerous private parties and events that Trump and Epstein had together. But everyone knows that already.

From everything I read thus far, the woman who claimed Trump raped her when she was 13 went into hiding due to the handling of her case exposing her to danger. From the number of reports I read her story went like this:

*She anonymously filed a suit against Trump in California representing herself since she was not able to afford representation and feared for her safety so she did not want Epstein or Trump to be able to find and kill her and her family. She stated in that original suit that she and her family were threatened if she ever spoke up about what happened to her and she feared for her life. She did not file her suit properly so it was dismissed. She tried to make it as difficult as possible for her to be found because she was terrified she would be killed.

* Al what's his face repeatedly tried to contact her after finding out about her suit telling her he would help her and promised to keep her safe. It appears he may have just been trying to use her for personal benefit. She finally agreed to trust him and he convinced her to make a video as " insurance" to help " prevent" her from being harmed. He promised her he would disguise her and pixelate her and distort her voice to protect her identity and not distribute the video otherwise. He lied to her endangering her life by distributing the video showing her face and her actual voice to Baer. He claims he did so in an attempt to convince Baer so they could receive the financial backing they needed to protect her and keep her safe.

*She refiled her suit in NY thinking her identity was still protected and she was assured she would be kept safe.

*Baer promised he would not show the tape to anyone, but he lied to Al and instead distributed the tape to tons of people including Paul Ryan and numerous other republicans and tried to sell it to media outlets all over the place endangering her life. Al got mad at Baer over it and told Baer it would take more money to protect her now but Baer did not provide the money to do so and they started fighting amongst themselves.

*Because of the actions of the men she naively trusted with her life, she was found and started receiving death threats, the one thing she tried so hard to prevent from happening was now happening and they could now go after her and her family. Terrified she withdrew the case stating fear for her life and has not been heard from since. She had no further contact with AL or Baer due to them endangering her. She has not yet been found again.

*Media mocked Baer and Al calling this a stunt and a hoax, although it appears more like the woman in question was taken advantage of rather than her seeking out this to happen. She never contacted them to begin with they went through great lengths to try to find her instead.

It looks like if better people had actually reached out to help her, it is likely this could have gone much different for her. No one knows if she is alive of dead at this point and are not likely to find out since she does not appear to be willing to make the mistake of speaking up again after what happened when she did. Not that I would blame anyone for not being willing to try again in those circumstances, it is not worth your life or the life of your family to try and seek " justice". There is no "justice" served if the victim and their family wind up dead in the process.

stroopwafel:
That already had a long prelude during the Clinton years...

Way to completely miss my point, which is that the term "conspiracy theory" has such a strong negative connotation, and uncritical trust in government, has been fostered in the populace. To the point, any alternate theory that alleges nefarious or incompetent government action, no matter how parsimonious or supported by real evidence to any extent, is labeled a conspiracy theory and conversation shut down almost by default. It's to the point the easiest and most efficacious way to hide shit, is not through cover-ups but by pushing increasingly crazier narratives until everything involved with it, save the official story, is discounted as conspiracy theory.

Eacaraxe:

stroopwafel:
That already had a long prelude during the Clinton years...

Way to completely miss my point, which is that the term "conspiracy theory" has such a strong negative connotation, and uncritical trust in government, has been fostered in the populace. To the point, any alternate theory that alleges nefarious or incompetent government action, no matter how parsimonious or supported by real evidence to any extent, is labeled a conspiracy theory and conversation shut down almost by default. It's to the point the easiest and most efficacious way to hide shit, is not through cover-ups but by pushing increasingly crazier narratives until everything involved with it, save the official story, is discounted as conspiracy theory.

Here's the thing, unless basic bitch wet work like this is how the CIA bloods it's newbies, I personally don't believe this is a whole of government cover up. I do however have no issue believing - rightly or wrongly - the possibility that the very wealthy and powerful people Epstein knew and had dirt on made some discrete phone calls and greased the correct palms to have him murdered.

Agema:

CrazyGirl17:
It does seem rather suspicious... but if he was guilty, I can't bring myself to feel sorry for him.

I feel sorry for his victims, because they deserve to see justice done and the person who wronged them sent down in a courtroom, which will now never happen.

Secondly, people like Epstein off themselves because they dread the humiliation of their downfall. By killing themselves, they are therefore taking what is, for them, the easy way out.

So fuck him doubly: the selfish, vile, shit of a human.

In the end of the day he won. He got the life he wanted and ended it on his own terms. Though he should have gone out with a bang and released all the blackmail while he was at it.

Marik2:

Agema:

CrazyGirl17:
It does seem rather suspicious... but if he was guilty, I can't bring myself to feel sorry for him.

I feel sorry for his victims, because they deserve to see justice done and the person who wronged them sent down in a courtroom, which will now never happen.

Secondly, people like Epstein off themselves because they dread the humiliation of their downfall. By killing themselves, they are therefore taking what is, for them, the easy way out.

So fuck him doubly: the selfish, vile, shit of a human.

In the end of the day he won. He got the life he wanted and ended it on his own terms. Though he should have gone out with a bang and released all the blackmail while he was at it.

In times like these I like to think there is an afterlife, especially a hell for sinners. It helps keep me sane...

image

"We was like the Roman Empire, Don"

Gordon_4:
Here?s the thing...powerful people Epstein knew and had dirt on made some discrete phone calls and greased the correct palms to have him murdered.

Well, not that I endorse it, but you wanna hear conspiracy theory, here's one for you. In my game night Saturday, I was joking around about Epstein's death. I said I'd give it about three days' time and a couple major findings come out about his death, and there'll be another shooting incident that'll receive disproportionate media attention. Because, counting the idiot who shot up the ICE office last month, it'd be the third time since the arrest high-profile shooting incidents preempted emerging news in the case. I was just being a drunk prick when I said it, and frankly had forgotten until one of the people who was at the game reminded me.

I'm starting to think it really wasn't an assassination cuz suicide watch and murican prisons are just that bad at keeping track of inmates and the guards usually don't care.

Eacaraxe:

Gordon_4:
Here?s the thing...powerful people Epstein knew and had dirt on made some discrete phone calls and greased the correct palms to have him murdered.

Well, not that I endorse it, but you wanna hear conspiracy theory, here's one for you. In my game night Saturday, I was joking around about Epstein's death. I said I'd give it about three days' time and a couple major findings come out about his death, and there'll be another shooting incident that'll receive disproportionate media attention. Because, counting the idiot who shot up the ICE office last month, it'd be the third time since the arrest high-profile shooting incidents preempted emerging news in the case.

(((All according to plan)))

Marik2:
I'm starting to think it really wasn't an assassination cuz suicide watch and murican prisons are just that bad at keeping track of inmates and the guards usually don't care.

I kid, but I'm still exorbitantly skeptical. There's a whole lot of "just happens" to occur all at once to lead to this moment.

The guy's a supposed billionaire who appeared out of nowhere twenty years ago with near-perfectly opaque finances and no obvious source of personal wealth, wining and dining with some of the wealthiest and most influential people on the planet. He was accused and convicted of child sex trafficking in one of the shadiest and most opaque non-pros's to hit the newsstands potentially facilitated by the intelligence community, and alleged to be at the center of an international child sex trafficking ring that involved those same wealthiest and most influential people on the planet. And, apparently capable of maintaining a carefully-curated public image -- what little of it was public -- by hook or crook through connections and influence bartering only paralleled in our times by Harvey Weinstein's own capacity to bury his sexual proclivities in the press.

That's just the "mainstream media headline" story, not even going into the actual conspiracy shit surrounding him.

This motherfucker gets party vanned and apparently botches one suicide attempt while in custody. Despite this he just happens to get pulled off suicide watch against advice, and just happens to be placed in solitary against procedure. Then, guards of dubious training and competence just happen to get assigned to the night shift. They both just happen to nap at the time Epstein just happens to decide to do the deed and just long enough for him to do it, at the same time there just happened to be an alleged lapse in video surveillance in common areas and hallways outside his cell.

All in a prison that, despite severe manpower shortages, managed to maintain an otherwise impeccable record for an American correctional facility. Rather impressive, considering this is the facility that held the likes of John Gotti, Jackie d'Amico, Omar Rahman, Ramzi Yousef, and El Chapo, and several of its tenants (including two of those I just mentioned) would later be transferred to ADX Florence.

And of a four-day period full of press releases and statements, giving the appearance of an otherwise transparent investigation, this question of video surveillance in the block Epstein was held is the one that just happens to be getting completely stonewalled by any outlets who dare to ask.

Then you have this motherfucker of a story just published, that allege the findings of Epstein's autopsy are not consistent with suicide by hanging, but rather homicide by strangulation. [EDIT: According to the article, it's possible for suicide by hanging to cause the observed injuries, especially in older folks who suicided or were in poor health, but statistically unlikely, and Epstein was not elderly by any stretch of the imagination and according all reports in excellent health for his age. The observed injuries are, by the numbers, more indicative of homicide.

Also, apparently the body's already disappeared, having been claimed by an unidentified associate.]

Eacaraxe:

Way to completely miss my point, which is that the term "conspiracy theory" has such a strong negative connotation, and uncritical trust in government, has been fostered in the populace. To the point, any alternate theory that alleges nefarious or incompetent government action, no matter how parsimonious or supported by real evidence to any extent, is labeled a conspiracy theory and conversation shut down almost by default. It's to the point the easiest and most efficacious way to hide shit, is not through cover-ups but by pushing increasingly crazier narratives until everything involved with it, save the official story, is discounted as conspiracy theory.

How has this particular story and related conspiracy theories been 'shut down by default'?
Your conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory seems like a conspiracy theory.

If only there'd been a good guy with a gun to save him. Typical of the nanny state USA not to let good guys with guns watch the watchmen.

Kwak:
How has this particular story and related conspiracy theories been 'shut down by default'?
Your conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory seems like a conspiracy theory.

Dunno if you noticed, but the Pizzagate lunacy of a few years back featured Epstein, and the QAnon types have been on about him for years, making any form of discussion about his proclivities and connections prior to the arrest a complete non-starter even once Miami Herald initiated its recent coverage. The only reason any of this got run time, at all, was because editors and outlets figured they could dunk on Trump by showing Acosta's hand in the cookie jar; I don't blame that Julie K. Brown reporter for that, since she'd been covering his ass for years, but her (and other reporters') prior coverage had been buried, altered, or suppressed consistently up until it could be ran with the Acosta angle. Only once the arrest occurred, was it generally acceptable to discuss him openly without being labeled a Pizzagater or MAGA type.

And even now, the sum total of the conversation in most online spaces, is which side "owns" Epstein. Democrats claim Epstein was the center of a conspiracy that involved Trump at its heart; Republicans claim Epstein was the center of a conspiracy that involved Clinton at its heart. Look no further than the fact #TrumpBodyCount and #ClintonBodyCount were actually dueling hashtags last weekend, or even than Joe Scarborough, an MSNBC morning host, was popping off on social media mildly insinuating it may have been a Russian intelligence hit. It's essentially the mine shaft gap scene from the end of Dr. Strangelove, except applied to whose side has the worst pedophiles.

Seanchaidh:
Epstein's ability to kill himself while on suicide watch shows us that the rich really are just more capable than everyone else.

I've heard it was (Bill) Clinton, I've heard it was Trump... let's be honest: they both and many others had plenty of reason to want that guy dead. But probably earlier, you would think.

Shows how all the power-drunk elite class only care when they get caught, and god knows how much effort they put into keeping all their secrets.

Anyways, what do you get when you cross Bill Clinton and Donald Trump?

Is alex jones saying anything about this case?

hanselthecaretaker:

Seanchaidh:
Epstein's ability to kill himself while on suicide watch shows us that the rich really are just more capable than everyone else.

I've heard it was (Bill) Clinton, I've heard it was Trump... let's be honest: they both and many others had plenty of reason to want that guy dead. But probably earlier, you would think.

Shows how all the power-drunk elite class only care when they get caught, and god knows how much effort they put into keeping all their secrets.

Anyways, what do you get when you cross Bill Clinton and Donald Trump?

This should have been in the jokes thread

lol some medic guy actually posted on 4chan about the guys death an hour before the news got wind of it.

(((Jeffrey Epstein)))

Marik2:
(((Jeffrey Epstein)))

I didn't know he was Jewish. Huh.

CM156:

Marik2:
(((Jeffrey Epstein)))

I didn't know he was Jewish. Huh.

Ok, am legitimately confused. Does being Jewish change anything in any way, to the point that it had to be said at all? And why was it said in the way that white supremacists do it? Is this some kind of 4chan shitpost thing?

Neurotic Void Melody:

Ok, am legitimately confused. Does being Jewish change anything in any way, to the point that it had to be said at all? And why was it said in the way that white supremacists do it? Is this some kind of 4chan shitpost thing?

I think it's a reference to the earlier comment about whether Alex Jones was looking at it: it's surely rich territory for far-right conspiracy theories, if so, what are they?

Agema:
I think it's a reference to the earlier comment about whether Alex Jones was looking at it: it's surely rich territory for far-right conspiracy theories, if so, what are they?

Ah, thanks, I had completely missed that part for context. I wouldn't have thought of those two members to be literal white supremacists, hence the initial confusion. One less mystery in life to mull over! :)

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here