[Politics] Trump fires national security advisor John Bolton

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Well, this is a toughie. No tears over John Bolton being kicked into touch, but it's yet more ludicrous shenanigans in the USA's high office.

I am fascinated by the wording from Pompeo:

"The president is entitled to the staff that he wants at any moment. He should have people he trusts and values and whose efforts and judgment benefit him in delivering American foreign policy."

I find the wording of this quite interesting. Is it a deliberate dig, or a Freudian slip? Notice that the phrasing is all about how the president appoints people at his whim to the benefit of the president doing what he wants. What it really is not saying is that the president appoints staff to the benefit of the USA.

"When the president of the United States makes a decision like this, he's well within his rights to do so,"

Again, what's not being said here is that this was a good decision.

I'm happy about Bolton being fired. I'd be even happier about Bolton being fired at.

Trump is a fascist. This is just a fact.

Now, the question is; what kind of scum will he replace Bolton with?

bluegate:
Now, the question is; what kind of scum will he replace Bolton with?

Normally I would say he would have to dip pretty far down to get worse but this is trump, hes probably got worse on speed dial.

I'm pretty sure very similar wording has come out of other people who have quit/ got fired. It definitely came out of Huckabee Sanders when she quit.

I don't know why this is surprising though. Trump has been consolidating power since he took office, giving his family more responsibility. For some to become Authoritarian, you've got to significantly reduce the number of keys to the kingdom and hand them out to loyal followers. The more keys, the more likely someone will take you out.

As far as I'm aware, Trump was the soothing salve in this relationship. He stopped Bolton from doing really insane stuff. So, Bolton not having any power id a good idea. I doubt Trump did it to help with foreign relations, its a further power grab

John Bolton should be rotting in the Hague. But so should Pompeo, (Elliott) Abrams, Trump, and many others in the United States NatSec blob.

Apparently Bolton wants to make it very clear that he was not fired but resigned

Looks like what an old Republican would consider "sass." Nevermind, Bolton can bolt on...ahaha, sorry, not clever and very low effort. Can't wait for the next psycho to replace that bristly war head.

Worgen:

bluegate:
Now, the question is; what kind of scum will he replace Bolton with?

Normally I would say he would have to dip pretty far down to get worse but this is trump, hes probably got worse on speed dial.

Tough to find someone worse than Bolton. Guy was one of the top cheerleaders of the Iraq war. The Reality TV star/slumlord/rapist looks positively saintly by comparison.

jademunky:

Worgen:

bluegate:
Now, the question is; what kind of scum will he replace Bolton with?

Normally I would say he would have to dip pretty far down to get worse but this is trump, hes probably got worse on speed dial.

Tough to find someone worse than Bolton. Guy was one of the top cheerleaders of the Iraq war. The Reality TV star/slumlord/rapist looks positively saintly by comparison.

Yeah, that's the really weird thing about this, bolton is the worst, so... I'm actually not sure how trump could get worse, probably just be more corrupt instead of hawkish.

And now Fox News has declared Bolton to be a "man of the left" and a "Progressive".

I'll let that sink in.

Smithnikov:
And now Fox News has declared Bolton to be a "man of the left" and a "Progressive".

I'll let that sink in.

I mean I'm sure there's someone on these forums who'll make a similar argument now.

Silent Protagonist:
Apparently Bolton wants to make it very clear that he was not fired but resigned

I'll bet he does. He claims he offered to resign, Trump told him they'd talk about it tomorrow, and then fired him. And honestly, I can totally believe Trump did that just because it's the sort of cheap shot power trip and showmanship Trump would enjoy.

It's extremely obvious that Pompeo and the guy with him (Mnuchin?) seemed very cheery at the conference - I have to assume neither of them liked Bolton at all. In fact, does anyone like John Bolton?

Agema:
In fact, does anyone like John Bolton?

Mrs Bolton? Actually, Your Honour, I withdraw the question. Of course she doesn't.

Pompeo is an interesting voice to comment on it, as he has his own decision to make regarding remaining with Trump or abandoning ship. KS' Senator Pat Roberts is not seeking re-election, and Kansas Republicans are in trouble because the candidate with the important Trump seal of approval... lost a gubernatorial election to a Democrat while he was KS' Secretary of State. Meaning he lost an election he was the HEAD OFFICIAL of (how was that even legal in the first place... and he lost.) KS Republicans either defy Trump... or elect someone who might just lose to a Democrat. How does Pompeo fit in? He is seen in as a shoe-in to win the primary and general election in that Senate race. So far he has repeatedly stated he is completely focused on his job as Secretary of State. But note, that isn't the same thing as saying he absolutely won't run.

He knows if he leaves to run in the Senate race... he really pisses off Trump. Pompeo is one of the few left that has been with him from the beginning. But if Pompeo stays, Trump could easily lose in 2020. And that Senate seat won't be available for another 5 years, and he'd have to fight an incumbent for it even then. Whereas if he leaves the administration, he's basically set up as a Senator (as easy as republican incumbents get elected in Kansas) for life. And if he doesn't leave, and Kobach wins the primary... with Trump's trade war with China souring the normally right-leaning agriculture sector... Republicans could lose a Senate seat right before they potentially could lose the White House.

Behind the scenes, the Republican party is begging him to run for Senate. Meanwhile he remains maybe Trump's most trusted advisor. What will win out, loyalty to party or to President. Especially when loyalty to party means you are set for life while loyalty to President means maybe losing much.

Smithnikov:
And now Fox News has declared Bolton to be a "man of the left" and a "Progressive".

I'll let that sink in.

Christ they wanna be careful there, he could sue for defamation of character.

I was so happy to hear the news.

The odds of trump starting a war with Iran just went down a noticeable amount, which is an intense relief.

Now, obviously, I'd love that war criminal to be tried at the Hague, but him just not having a hand on the wheel is already an improvement.

Smithnikov:
And now Fox News has declared Bolton to be a "man of the left" and a "Progressive".

I'll let that sink in.

Someone cue the Spider man "Ahahahaha, you serious?" meme...
https://youtu.be/pBrU9laptGI

But no, really, they actually did that?

Yes, because nonstop offense-driven wars against nations that haven't attacked you (which murder thousands of innocent people) are TOTALLY a progressive idea, Fox.

They totally weren't started and popularized by a republican president named after a shrubbery, who went and attacked Iraq without any provocation and lied his entire nation into a pointless useless war that's left the region even MORE unstable and violent. Nope, warmongering is now a completely progressive priority, riiiiight.

Now, let's see if some of the establishment dems fall for that and try to rehabilitate Bolton like some of them did with ol' W Bush. >_>

Smithnikov:
And now Fox News has declared Bolton to be a "man of the left" and a "Progressive".

I'll let that sink in.

Big deal. Fox News calls "Progressive" to anyone who doesn't march with a goose step to the GOP's beat.

aegix drakan:

Smithnikov:
And now Fox News has declared Bolton to be a "man of the left" and a "Progressive".

I'll let that sink in.

Someone cue the Spider man "Ahahahaha, you serious?" meme...
https://youtu.be/pBrU9laptGI

But no, really, they actually did that?

Yes, because nonstop offense-driven wars against nations that haven't attacked you (which murder thousands of innocent people) are TOTALLY a progressive idea, Fox.

Yes, yes they did. In fact here it is from the horse's mouth.

Tucker Hails Firing of John Bolton: He was 'fundamentally a man of the Left'

The annoying thing is he was probably fired because he didn't like the colour of Trump's tie that day rather than because of the many many many reasons he should have been fired

Asita:

aegix drakan:

Smithnikov:
And now Fox News has declared Bolton to be a "man of the left" and a "Progressive".

I'll let that sink in.

Someone cue the Spider man "Ahahahaha, you serious?" meme...
https://youtu.be/pBrU9laptGI

But no, really, they actually did that?

Yes, because nonstop offense-driven wars against nations that haven't attacked you (which murder thousands of innocent people) are TOTALLY a progressive idea, Fox.

Yes, yes they did. In fact here it is from the horse's mouth.

Tucker Hails Firing of John Bolton: He was 'fundamentally a man of the Left'

...How did I know it would be Tucker Carlson? XD

Because I was about 80% sure it HAD to be him.

Only this guy can see "The actual point" (Bolton is a terrible, dangerous warmonger) without needing binoculars, only to then turn around and mess it up completely by being his usual idiot self.

MAN I hate that guy and his perpetually confused face.

Palindromemordnilap:
The annoying thing is he was probably fired because he didn't like the colour of Trump's tie that day rather than because of the many many many reasons he should have been fired

He was fired apparently because he did lots of things Trump didn't like, and didn't get on with other major players in Trump's administration. First and foremost, I suspect what's done for him is that he pushed the hardline stance on Iran, and it's been a total bust.

Well okay. But again, it goes to yet more evidence that Trump is clearly fucking awful at hiring.

aegix drakan:

Asita:

aegix drakan:

Someone cue the Spider man "Ahahahaha, you serious?" meme...
https://youtu.be/pBrU9laptGI

But no, really, they actually did that?

Yes, because nonstop offense-driven wars against nations that haven't attacked you (which murder thousands of innocent people) are TOTALLY a progressive idea, Fox.

Yes, yes they did. In fact here it is from the horse's mouth.

Tucker Hails Firing of John Bolton: He was 'fundamentally a man of the Left'

...How did I know it would be Tucker Carlson? XD

Because I was about 80% sure it HAD to be him.

Only this guy can see "The actual point" (Bolton is a terrible, dangerous warmonger) without needing binoculars, only to then turn around and mess it up completely by being his usual idiot self.

MAN I hate that guy and his perpetually confused face.

I like the part where he thinks that Bolton was part of the Left becuase he thought he could brute force problem with the government.

Because the Right never consistently brute forces problems with the government....

aegix drakan:

Asita:

aegix drakan:

Someone cue the Spider man "Ahahahaha, you serious?" meme...
https://youtu.be/pBrU9laptGI

But no, really, they actually did that?

Yes, because nonstop offense-driven wars against nations that haven't attacked you (which murder thousands of innocent people) are TOTALLY a progressive idea, Fox.

Yes, yes they did. In fact here it is from the horse's mouth.

Tucker Hails Firing of John Bolton: He was 'fundamentally a man of the Left'

...How did I know it would be Tucker Carlson? XD

Because I was about 80% sure it HAD to be him.

Only this guy can see "The actual point" (Bolton is a terrible, dangerous warmonger) without needing binoculars, only to then turn around and mess it up completely by being his usual idiot self.

MAN I hate that guy and his perpetually confused face.

I'm certain it's disingenuous bullshit.

But liberals and even the politicians of the left are making it easy for him:

Seanchaidh:

But liberals and even the politicians of the left are making it easy for him:

I dont get it.

Kwak:

Seanchaidh:

But liberals and even the politicians of the left are making it easy for him:

I dont get it.

House rules. If you criticize Trump or the GOP it's an automatic win for them

Kwak:
I dont get it.

Tweets that implicitly support Bolton from Democratic lawmakers? What's not to get?

AOC's is particularly gross, as her clarification seems to possibly indicate opposition to the Korean peace process.

I don't think it's all that meaningful given that the tweets are more about persons than policies, but progressives should be united in saying fuck John Bolton, may he rot in hell.

Good. Now replace him with somebody who isn't a warmonger.

Also, when somebody is right, they are right. Just because it's Trump or Kim Jong-Un or somebody else scummy who wants Bolton fired, doesn't mean firing Bolton isn't unequivocally a good thing

Seanchaidh:

Kwak:
I dont get it.

Tweets that implicitly support Bolton from Democratic lawmakers? What's not to get?

AOC's is particularly gross, as her clarification seems to possibly indicate opposition to the Korean peace process.

I don't think it's all that meaningful given that the tweets are more about persons than policies, but progressives should be united in saying fuck John Bolton, may he rot in hell.

I've gotta do a whole lot of squinting to make any of what you said make sense. Pointing out that Trump treated Bolton like crap is not supporting Bolton. It's pointing out that he's not the best boss. Also, what peace process? Kim has been doing whatever he wants despite what anyone does.

Ro Khanna, at least, had a better take than the ones I gestured at above:

https://www.thenation.com/article/bolton-war-ro-khanna/

trunkage:

Seanchaidh:

Kwak:
I dont get it.

Tweets that implicitly support Bolton from Democratic lawmakers? What's not to get?

AOC's is particularly gross, as her clarification seems to possibly indicate opposition to the Korean peace process.

I don't think it's all that meaningful given that the tweets are more about persons than policies, but progressives should be united in saying fuck John Bolton, may he rot in hell.

I've gotta do a whole lot of squinting to make any of what you said make sense.

You may wish to get your eyes checked, then.

trunkage:
Pointing out that Trump treated Bolton like crap is not supporting Bolton.

It is absent much of anything else. Bolton should never have been hired in the first place. They should have put that front and center.

trunkage:
Also, what peace process? Kim has been doing whatever he wants despite what anyone does.

The peace process most recently suspended by the North Korean reaction to provocative joint US-South Korean military exercises? Maybe the US should stop doing that, just a thought?

Pseudonym:
Also, when somebody is right, they are right. Just because it's Trump or Kim Jong-Un or somebody else scummy who wants Bolton fired, doesn't mean firing Bolton isn't unequivocally a good thing

Good things can and regularly are done through bad intentions. It doesn't make the doer right; it's not like they have really learnt anything, have they? It was just another power grab. People are able to distinguish between these and apply caution to the context... congratulate the newfound absence of a psycho, but not the other psycho who caused it through their own selfish desires. The road to heaven is paved with bad intentions, and all that jazz.

Neurotic Void Melody:

Pseudonym:
Also, when somebody is right, they are right. Just because it's Trump or Kim Jong-Un or somebody else scummy who wants Bolton fired, doesn't mean firing Bolton isn't unequivocally a good thing

Good things can and regularly are done through bad intentions. It doesn't make the doer right; it's not like they have really learnt anything, have they? It was just another power grab. People are able to distinguish between these and apply caution to the context... congratulate the newfound absence of a psycho, but not the other psycho who caused it through their own selfish desires. The road to heaven is paved with bad intentions, and all that jazz.

I don't know, in this case. Kim Jong-Un's desire not to be invaded might be selfish but I don't disagree with the idea of not causing further conflict with North Korea. Trump, though he sucks in twelve other ways, has the vague inclination against war, which I approve of. It's not altogether clear here that Trump or Kim even have such bad intentions in this specific case. More importantly, I don't see the point in bringing it up. Kim and Trump are obviously horrible people, and we can show as much by pointing to all manner of other things such as North Korean concentration camps and Trump's treatment of immigrants and refugees and his environmental policy. Maybe he fired Bolton for nefarious or dumb reasons, but in politics I'll take all the temporary allies I can get. You can make sour remarks about how its probably for a bad reason and it might be, but that hardly matters. Worse, you might be taken to oppose this decision.

Seanchaidh:
Ro Khanna, at least, had a better take than the ones I gestured at above:

https://www.thenation.com/article/bolton-war-ro-khanna/

trunkage:

Seanchaidh:

Tweets that implicitly support Bolton from Democratic lawmakers? What's not to get?

AOC's is particularly gross, as her clarification seems to possibly indicate opposition to the Korean peace process.

I don't think it's all that meaningful given that the tweets are more about persons than policies, but progressives should be united in saying fuck John Bolton, may he rot in hell.

I've gotta do a whole lot of squinting to make any of what you said make sense.

You may wish to get your eyes checked, then.

trunkage:
Pointing out that Trump treated Bolton like crap is not supporting Bolton.

It is absent much of anything else. Bolton should never have been hired in the first place. They should have put that front and center.

trunkage:
Also, what peace process? Kim has been doing whatever he wants despite what anyone does.

The peace process most recently suspended by the North Korean reaction to provocative joint US-South Korean military exercises? Maybe the US should stop doing that, just a thought?

Maybe a news article has far more chance for nuance than a tweet? Also, clearly I'm blind. Made you can point out the specific word that prove that they supported him. Because, clearly, they didn't supporting Bolton. At all. They criticised Trump. Just because you criticise someone, doesn't mean your are for their opponents. I would say that this kind of connection probably would be made by Tucker Carlson because he just makes stuff up to suit his narrative. Maybe that's your point.

Hey, all for Bolton being shown as inappropriate for the job. He can also be used as proof that Trump doesn't know what he's doing. You cant do both in one tweet. (You can in two https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-headline-donald-trump-john-bolton_n_5d79ffb4e4b06028fd376656. Where is describes that Bolton being gone as a good thing.) You can in one article.

If your trying to push for political discourse not being on twitter, all for that. It becomes a game of Got Ya, leaves nuance at the door and is just a series of talking point. I think that train left the station a long time ago. If you offended that Bolton was insulted enough, she did it in another tweet

Christmas come early. If we listened to Bolton we would be in 4 wars right now.

North Korea, Syria, Iran, and Venezuela.

And I am talking all of them involving ground troops.

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