Alleged harassment, threats of doxxing, hitpiece journalism, 'fake' gamer girls... Oh my!

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MrCalavera:

Johnny Novgorod:

Windknight:
We aren't going to see Esports at the olympics until we're sure one of the competitors isn't chomping at the bit to scream slurs or teabag an opponent in front of a worldwide audience.

Pretty sure there're a thousand more reasons why we're not going to see Esports at the Olympics any time soon.

That being said, teabagging in front of a live audience of billion people, would be a sight to behold. Damn, now i'm a bit sad.

And then you'll have to explain to your non-gaming friends and family what he's doing, and then having them wondering if you do that, and if you do, wondering 'what the hell is wrong with you'.

Johnny Novgorod:

Silentpony:

Johnny Novgorod:

Pretty sure there're a thousand more reasons why we're not going to see Esports at the Olympics any time soon.

I mean is it even fair to call gaming a sport?

Nah.
Sports measure skill between opponents. People dedicate entire lives to hone them.
Competitive games require some skill for sure but it doesn't take long to develop it. There's never been a single multiplayer game where I don't luck out in the first couple of tries and kill a maxed-out player who's been at it for weeks/months/years.
(Which cues the nasty messages)

Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is. People dedicate their lives to these games as well, playing one certain game for at least 8 hours a day and getting better and better, to say it doesn't take long to develop a real skill for a game is bs.

Dreiko:

trunkage:

Dreiko:

Well, yes, heaven forbid, cause in a free society you should be able to act like an idiot and have it be dealt with like normal and not pre-emptively curtailed for the sake of the feelings of fuck knows who. (probably some corporate market analyst or some overly-religious fanatic in the boonies)

a free society does not freedom from consequences. If slurs sold well, it would be dominant. But it doesn't always

Thinking like this would have prevented progressive change like weed legalization, gay marriage, emancipation, suffrage and so on. Sometimes popular opinion is conservative fear-based BS so future-looking corporations can also make a living in eschewing the status quo and carving out their own path. Success of youtubers with crass shows showcase this to be the case.

Basically, I don't think the consequences of people being authentic as they enjoy games would be anywhere close to the degree of bad that scared marketing executives who are not part of the culture themselves paint them as being. A 70 year old churchgoer isn't going to be buying many arcade joystick controllers anyways. A soccermom is not going to be participating in a money match in the latest pantyshot fighter. There's basically no notable consequences to speak of and a whole lot of "conventional wisdom" holding things back.

Being Authentic? Nah they're putting a show on for you. It's not real. They act like a dick to show how tough they are. You know, like a bully. And like a bully, its a thin veneer for their own social insecurities.

This is a generalization but from the hundred Asians I know, they hate bullies. I've seen them walk out, en masse from stand up comics who weren't insulting Asians. They were insulting whites and these Asians dont truck with that nonsense.

Maybe it's to pander to Asians? Clearly the money is more in not having insults. Maybe looking at previous big games that didn't curtail insults gives us clues. I remember when LOL and DOTA were young, and there was a third contender (before Smite) with Hero in the name. It died becuase it wouldn't curtail insults even to the little extant of LOL and DOTA. It just became so toxic nobody wanted to play. And that's toxic compared to two games I just referenced.

Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Johnny Novgorod:

Silentpony:
I mean is it even fair to call gaming a sport?

Nah.
Sports measure skill between opponents. People dedicate entire lives to hone them.
Competitive games require some skill for sure but it doesn't take long to develop it. There's never been a single multiplayer game where I don't luck out in the first couple of tries and kill a maxed-out player who's been at it for weeks/months/years.
(Which cues the nasty messages)

Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is. People dedicate their lives to these games as well, playing one certain game for at least 8 hours a day and getting better and better, to say it doesn't take long to develop a real skill for a game is bs.

How can you dedicate your life to a game that's only been around for a few years?
Pro-gamers weren't practicing Overwatch 10 years ago, they were playing Magic the Gathering and watching the Dark Knight.
and in 2 or 3 years there will be another FPS game that 'pro-gamers' would have spent their whole lives training with.

Satinavian:
Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Satinavian:
Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

No, but it is fucking tacky

Silentpony:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Johnny Novgorod:

Nah.
Sports measure skill between opponents. People dedicate entire lives to hone them.
Competitive games require some skill for sure but it doesn't take long to develop it. There's never been a single multiplayer game where I don't luck out in the first couple of tries and kill a maxed-out player who's been at it for weeks/months/years.
(Which cues the nasty messages)

Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is. People dedicate their lives to these games as well, playing one certain game for at least 8 hours a day and getting better and better, to say it doesn't take long to develop a real skill for a game is bs.

How can you dedicate your life to a game that's only been around for a few years?
Pro-gamers weren't practicing Overwatch 10 years ago, they were playing Magic the Gathering and watching the Dark Knight.
and in 2 or 3 years there will be another FPS game that 'pro-gamers' would have spent their whole lives training with.

Skills transfer between games. I don't play shooters but with fighters, as long as you learn the fundamentals completely and learn how to go about absorbing the elements of the game in one game you're instantly better than 90% of players in all games just due to that. Not gonna say that you wouldn't be better if you had been playing the same one game for all this time but to think that every beginner in a new game starts on the same footing is very misguided.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Satinavian:
Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

I mean, as a taunt that supposed to tilt your opponent..isn't offending the point?

are we now surprised offending taunts are offensive? are we that defensive about this?

this is the final hill?

teabagging?

Trash talk (that tbagging is a facet of) is a way of having fun and camaraderie to some. To others it's a way of angering your foe so they'll play worse and so on. Some people are genuinely sadists about it but I don't think most people use it in order to genuinely make anyone upset and are just messing around. .

Personally, I'm always polite and will only reciprocate trash talk if someone else initiates it against me and only if they're somewhere around my skill level so that I won't be confused for showing off or bullying some salty newb for no reason, but it's still fun when that happens once in a while so I get why people would do it.

honestly heres my take

the end goal of e-athletes is to eventually be treated like real athletes

real athletes hold themselves to a higher standard and do not overtly taunt or trash talk

therefore e-athletes should hold themselves to that standard as well

you wanna be treated like adults? act like it

undeadsuitor:
honestly heres my take

the end goal of e-athletes is to eventually be treated like real athletes

real athletes hold themselves to a higher standard and do not overtly taunt or trash talk

therefore e-athletes should hold themselves to that standard as well

you wanna be treated like adults? act like it

I'm sure some athletes do and then get criticized for it or obtain a "bad boy" image and what have you.

But yeah I don't see any value to any type of boastful behavior. I just consider my own opinion of people as being dumbasses as a sufficient penalty for peoples' behavior and don't see a point to doing anything beyond that. It helps since if I happen to be wrong I won't be supporting something that's actually incredibly unpopular just cause of my personal feelings, too.

I think people will organically fail if they're that unpleasant without the need for anyone's help.

undeadsuitor:
honestly heres my take

the end goal of e-athletes is to eventually be treated like real athletes

real athletes hold themselves to a higher standard and do not overtly taunt or trash talk

therefore e-athletes should hold themselves to that standard as well

you wanna be treated like adults? act like it

That was and is my opinion on this matter. Professional behaviour is expected and respected in professional profession. It's a tiny bit sad that there are those so insistent on their right to act like a child in what they claim is a professional activity. No one is offended by seeing grown people embarrass themselves like spoilt toddlers, they're only drawing pity and disappointment.

undeadsuitor:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Satinavian:
Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

I mean, as a taunt that supposed to tilt your opponent..isn't offending the point?

are we now surprised offending taunts are offensive? are we that defensive about this?

this is the final hill?

teabagging?

People keep bringing it up. There were a couple of teabags in the first season of OWL IIRC, just a couple, nobody cares. Somebody who would say "why can't they just be good sports about it?" upon learning about taunting in games most likely doesn't understand competitive gaming in general. It's true that some esports brands want even those kind of people on board, and thus stupidity -- taunting included -- must be kept low. However, the main problem is, and will be for the foreseeable future, the games: OW is hard to follow, LoL too, Dota 2 hard as hell to follow. On the other hand, synchronized swimming is hard to follow, so is dressage. It's also almost embarrassing to watch indoor cycling or race walking, and the 1500 metre freestyle.

undeadsuitor:
honestly heres my take

the end goal of e-athletes is to eventually be treated like real athletes

I hope that this is not the case. I think it's the corporations who would want this.

McElroy:

undeadsuitor:
honestly heres my take

the end goal of e-athletes is to eventually be treated like real athletes

I hope that this is not the case. I think it's the corporations who would want this.

If that were the case, teabagging would had been removed long ago from the game itself.

Dreiko:

Silentpony:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is. People dedicate their lives to these games as well, playing one certain game for at least 8 hours a day and getting better and better, to say it doesn't take long to develop a real skill for a game is bs.

How can you dedicate your life to a game that's only been around for a few years?
Pro-gamers weren't practicing Overwatch 10 years ago, they were playing Magic the Gathering and watching the Dark Knight.
and in 2 or 3 years there will be another FPS game that 'pro-gamers' would have spent their whole lives training with.

Skills transfer between games. I don't play shooters but with fighters, as long as you learn the fundamentals completely and learn how to go about absorbing the elements of the game in one game you're instantly better than 90% of players in all games just due to that. Not gonna say that you wouldn't be better if you had been playing the same one game for all this time but to think that every beginner in a new game starts on the same footing is very misguided.

With fighting games my experience has been the opposite of that. Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat to name a few play very differently to each other. Reflex would be transferable but the muscle memory would be a bastard.

Gordon_4:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Satinavian:
Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

No, but it is fucking tacky

Who cares? People taunt each other in literally every sport ALL THE TIME. No one cares, the players don't care, the viewers don't care. This is the first time I've ever heard people having such big issues with teabagging.

Silentpony:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Johnny Novgorod:

Nah.
Sports measure skill between opponents. People dedicate entire lives to hone them.
Competitive games require some skill for sure but it doesn't take long to develop it. There's never been a single multiplayer game where I don't luck out in the first couple of tries and kill a maxed-out player who's been at it for weeks/months/years.
(Which cues the nasty messages)

Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is. People dedicate their lives to these games as well, playing one certain game for at least 8 hours a day and getting better and better, to say it doesn't take long to develop a real skill for a game is bs.

How can you dedicate your life to a game that's only been around for a few years?
Pro-gamers weren't practicing Overwatch 10 years ago, they were playing Magic the Gathering and watching the Dark Knight.
and in 2 or 3 years there will be another FPS game that 'pro-gamers' would have spent their whole lives training with.

For an example, there is plenty of CSGO pro's today that played CS1.6 15 years ago. You don't know what these players did 10 years ago, just because some pros are playing a game released 3 years ago doesn't mean they've never touched a FPS before or that they won't be playing for 10 more years whether it's the same game or different but similar one. These people play these games like it's their full time jobs (And then some) and then there are plenty of moments where they go to tournaments and spend 80% of their time practicing/competing, and you don't call that dedicating their lives?

undeadsuitor:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Satinavian:
Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

I mean, as a taunt that supposed to tilt your opponent..isn't offending the point?

are we now surprised offending taunts are offensive? are we that defensive about this?

this is the final hill?

teabagging?

It's to throw them off their game, just like in every sport. Being teabagged is a minor annoyance, being taunted is a minor annoyance. Are we suggesting making taunting punishable because there might be 1 guy out there who's so thin skinned he's mentally scarred by being teabagged?

Majestic Manatee:
No one is offended by seeing grown people embarrass themselves like spoilt toddlers, they're only drawing pity and disappointment.

Then let them, I'm sure they'll survive without those people who never had an interest in esport and never will in the first place.

You guys act like this is something exclusive to esport, have you guys ever participated or watched any other sports ever?

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Johnny Novgorod:

Silentpony:
I mean is it even fair to call gaming a sport?

Nah.
Sports measure skill between opponents. People dedicate entire lives to hone them.
Competitive games require some skill for sure but it doesn't take long to develop it. There's never been a single multiplayer game where I don't luck out in the first couple of tries and kill a maxed-out player who's been at it for weeks/months/years.
(Which cues the nasty messages)

Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is.

No doubt about it. But in the world of gaming, the gap between "dedicated" and "casual" is minuscule compared to the one in actual sports. Being good at a game simply isn't that amazing. The game determines what you can and cannot do, you just need to discover the limit. In sports, the idea is that athletes are continuously pushing the limits of their skill.

Mastering a game is easier than an actual sport. It doesn't require as much time or effort. They're written in such a way that anybody can do it. It's right there in the code. I can boot a game I've never played before, go on to a public server and beat people who're technically better than me, who've been playing the same game for years. But I can't go on to a a boxing ring and land a single punch against anyone who actually knows how to fight.

Also to this day people have to be asked to stop putting their scrotums into opponents' mouths. What the fuck.

Johnny Novgorod:

No doubt about it. But in the world of gaming, the gap between "dedicated" and "casual" is minuscule compared to the one in actual sports. Being good at a game simply isn't that amazing. The game determines what you can and cannot do, you just need to discover the limit. In sports, the idea is that athletes are continuously pushing the limits of their skill.

Mastering a game is easier than an actual sport. It doesn't require as much time or effort. They're written in such a way that anybody can do it. It's right there in the code. I can boot a game I've never played before, go on to a public server and beat people who're technically better than me, who've been playing the same game for years. But I can't go on to a a boxing ring and land a single punch against anyone who actually knows how to fight.

Also to this day people have to be asked to stop putting their scrotums into opponents' mouths. What the fuck.

It's not minuscule at all. People get better and pushes their limits in pro-gaming as well, other sports determines what you can and cannot do, too.

No not anyone can master a game and no not anyone can be the next HeatoN or the next JW. Some people are just not as good as others and never will be, if you can beat someone who's been playing a game for years in your first game then they never were that good at the game and that's why they're playing pub-games. How are they technically better than you if you can win against them? Because they've played longer than you? Because they have better stats in public games?

And I can guarantee you that I could beat someone who never played a video game before too without him winning a round.

They're not putting their scrotum in other peoples mouths, they are crouching up and down over a dead body in a VIDEO GAME. Oh this guy just sawed you in half but him crouching over you is crossing the line alright.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Johnny Novgorod:

No doubt about it. But in the world of gaming, the gap between "dedicated" and "casual" is minuscule compared to the one in actual sports. Being good at a game simply isn't that amazing. The game determines what you can and cannot do, you just need to discover the limit. In sports, the idea is that athletes are continuously pushing the limits of their skill.

Mastering a game is easier than an actual sport. It doesn't require as much time or effort. They're written in such a way that anybody can do it. It's right there in the code. I can boot a game I've never played before, go on to a public server and beat people who're technically better than me, who've been playing the same game for years. But I can't go on to a a boxing ring and land a single punch against anyone who actually knows how to fight.

Also to this day people have to be asked to stop putting their scrotums into opponents' mouths. What the fuck.

It's not minuscule at all. People get better and pushes their limits in pro-gaming as well, other sports determines what you can and cannot do, too.

Again, yes, do something over and over and you're probably going to get better at it. Goes for everything. But sports require a lifetime trajectory and dedication that games simply don't. Most olympic sports have been around in some shape or form for hundreds of years if not millennia. In the scheme of history competitive gaming is a fad. And most of them become irrelevant in a relatively short amount of time anyway.

No not anyone can master a game and no not anyone can be the next HeatoN or the next JW. Some people are just not as good as others and never will be, if you can beat someone who's been playing a game for years in your first game then they never were that good at the game and that's why they're playing pub-games. How are they technically better than you if you can win against them?

I already told you. Mastering a game isn't that hard. They're made so that anybody can do it if they really want to.

Because they've played longer than you? Because they have better stats in public games?

Jesus dude it's not a leper colony. It's the equivalent of a friendly match in a park or some court. Assuming you've never played either, you have better odds of success playing a videogame for the first time than joining a sports match of any kind.

They're not putting their scrotum in other peoples mouths, they are crouching up and down over a dead body in a VIDEO GAME. Oh this guy just sawed you in half but him crouching over you is crossing the line alright.

I'm about to blow your mind, Baby Farts, but the representation of gross is still gross.
And not in good sportsmanship.

Johnny Novgorod:

Again, yes, do something over and over and you're probably going to get better at it. Goes for everything. But sports require a lifetime trajectory and dedication that games simply don't. Most olympic sports have been around in some shape or form for hundreds of years if not millennia. In the scheme of history competitive gaming is a fad. And most of them become irrelevant in a relatively short amount of time anyway.

Yes of course you're gonna get better the more you play, doesn't mean you'll be good though, everyone has a ceiling when it comes to every sport. Competitive gaming is relatively new yes, compared to olympic sports. It's growing exponentially though, but I'm not expecting it to join the olympics any time soon and I don't even care if it does.

I already told you. Mastering a game isn't that hard. They're made so that anybody can do it if they really want to.

And I already told you no.

Jesus dude it's not a leper colony. It's the equivalent of a friendly match in a park or some court. Assuming you've never played either, you have better odds of success playing a videogame for the first time than joining a sports match of any kind.

You really have no idea how bad people are at video games if they've never played one before.

I'm about to blow your mind, Baby Farts, but the representation of gross is still gross.
And not in good sportsmanship.

Give me a break lmao, you're playing games where you're violently killing each other but doing a representation of putting your sack on someone is too gross?

Bad sportsmanship? No one cares that much about teabagging, literally no one cares, except you people who don't even watch esports so again, no one cares.

But of course

image

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Johnny Novgorod:

[quote]
I'm about to blow your mind, Baby Farts, but the representation of gross is still gross.
And not in good sportsmanship.

Give me a break lmao, you're playing games where you're violently killing each other but doing a representation of putting your sack on someone is too gross?

Bad sportsmanship? No one cares that much about teabagging, literally no one cares, except you people who don't even watch esports so again, no one cares.

But of course

image

To follow on from my earlier point, explain to your friends and family who do not game what teabagging is, and what it represents, and how you think it's okay, then let us all know how they all reacted. Precisely, how loud their cries of 'WHAT THE F*** IS WRONG WITH YOU?' were.

Move outside the gaming bubble and truly think about how this comes across to people outside the culture, and maybe realise that hey, its not painting the best picture for people that gamers thinks its ok to do something gross and shitty as a 'humiliation' move to an opponent. Consider the punishment someone playing an actual sport would face for pulling similar humiliation stunts on the playing field.

Windknight:
To follow on from my earlier point, explain to your friends and family who do not game what teabagging is, and what it represents, and how you think it's okay, then let us all know how they all reacted. Precisely, how loud their cries of 'WHAT THE F*** IS WRONG WITH YOU?' were.

Move outside the gaming bubble and truly think about how this comes across to people outside the culture, and maybe realise that hey, its not painting the best picture for people that gamers thinks its ok to do something gross and shitty as a 'humiliation' move to an opponent. Consider the punishment someone playing an actual sport would face for pulling similar humiliation stunts on the playing field.

You really think that would be their reactions? How sheltered and thin-skinned are your parents if that's how they react to something so trivial? If I told my family what teabagging was (A taunt you do within the game by crouching up and down over your opponent, like a tbag motion) I can guarantee you that their reaction would be ''Oh, okay'' and maybe even laugh about it. They have been buying video games for over a decade and have seen far worse things, actual game mechanics, that you can do in video games than fucking teabagging someone.

Also people who don't play games is just that, they don't play games and they very rarely have reasonable or positive opinions about them. Let us talk about games with executions, how are they better and any less ''humiliating''? In Gears of War 4 I can rip off an enemy's arm and hit him with it until he is dead, is that better than teabagging someone? How would your parents react if you told them you can execute people like that in a game you're playing? Should people who have no interest in video games like your parents be able to decide how gaming culture should be, how games are programmed and how we should act?

Maybe you should move in the gaming bubble instead of acting like an outraged Christian mother in her 40's. You're comparing an action in a video game to an action IN REAL LIFE, they are two different things, maybe you're the one who should move out of the gaming bubble after all. They're video games, not real life, maybe you being unable to tell the difference between the two is the real problem here.

Windknight:

To follow on from my earlier point, explain to your friends and family who do not game what teabagging is, and what it represents, and how you think it's okay, then let us all know how they all reacted. Precisely, how loud their cries of 'WHAT THE F*** IS WRONG WITH YOU?' were.

Move outside the gaming bubble and truly think about how this comes across to people outside the culture, and maybe realise that hey, its not painting the best picture for people that gamers thinks its ok to do something gross and shitty as a 'humiliation' move to an opponent. Consider the punishment someone playing an actual sport would face for pulling similar humiliation stunts on the playing field.

That's so easy to say about so many sports traditions. "So when people win, they grab a lot of very expensive champagne, worth over thousands of dollar in some case, and then break it and spray it all over each others" is incredibly stupid, but it's part of the sports traditions. Of course it makes no sense outside context. You could even say that the reason why people do these things is exactly because of how crazy it sounds to outsider, it's a way to reaffirm your belonging to a specific group of people, with traditions.

Gordon_4:

Dreiko:

Silentpony:
How can you dedicate your life to a game that's only been around for a few years?
Pro-gamers weren't practicing Overwatch 10 years ago, they were playing Magic the Gathering and watching the Dark Knight.
and in 2 or 3 years there will be another FPS game that 'pro-gamers' would have spent their whole lives training with.

Skills transfer between games. I don't play shooters but with fighters, as long as you learn the fundamentals completely and learn how to go about absorbing the elements of the game in one game you're instantly better than 90% of players in all games just due to that. Not gonna say that you wouldn't be better if you had been playing the same one game for all this time but to think that every beginner in a new game starts on the same footing is very misguided.

With fighting games my experience has been the opposite of that. Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat to name a few play very differently to each other. Reflex would be transferable but the muscle memory would be a bastard.

Those are kind of a missmatch of genres of fighters. Strictly speaking there's 3 core ones, 2D, 3D and platformer fighter. Skills transfer but only between games belonging to the same genre of fighter and playing other fighters is literally like playing a completely different genre of game.

There is also a sub-split between 2D fighters that is governed by air mobility options and air blocking options, with the more mobile games (airdashers) like Blazblue/Guilty Gear/Dragonball fighterZ sharing fundamentals among them while the more slow paced simplistic ones like street fighter or killer instinct sharing fundamentals among them. Though, despite that, there are a lot of fundamentals still shared between all 2D fighters styles, way more than there are between them and 3D or platform ones anyhow.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Johnny Novgorod:

No doubt about it. But in the world of gaming, the gap between "dedicated" and "casual" is minuscule compared to the one in actual sports. Being good at a game simply isn't that amazing. The game determines what you can and cannot do, you just need to discover the limit. In sports, the idea is that athletes are continuously pushing the limits of their skill.

Mastering a game is easier than an actual sport. It doesn't require as much time or effort. They're written in such a way that anybody can do it. It's right there in the code. I can boot a game I've never played before, go on to a public server and beat people who're technically better than me, who've been playing the same game for years. But I can't go on to a a boxing ring and land a single punch against anyone who actually knows how to fight.

Also to this day people have to be asked to stop putting their scrotums into opponents' mouths. What the fuck.

It's not minuscule at all. People get better and pushes their limits in pro-gaming as well, other sports determines what you can and cannot do, too.

No not anyone can master a game and no not anyone can be the next HeatoN or the next JW. Some people are just not as good as others and never will be, if you can beat someone who's been playing a game for years in your first game then they never were that good at the game and that's why they're playing pub-games. How are they technically better than you if you can win against them? Because they've played longer than you? Because they have better stats in public games?

And I can guarantee you that I could beat someone who never played a video game before too without him winning a round.

They're not putting their scrotum in other peoples mouths, they are crouching up and down over a dead body in a VIDEO GAME. Oh this guy just sawed you in half but him crouching over you is crossing the line alright.

No Trojan objected to the death of Hector at the hands of Achillies. On the other hand they were plenty pissed off about his attempted desecration of Hector's corpse.

ObsidianJones:
I wanted to quote McElroy but I can't.

Did someone actually state that Bullying is a plausible method for social change? One to actually be used? Really?

Pretty much. Though I don't know why that's surprising, it brings back visions of 2014 and Sam Biddle writing "nerds should be constantly shamed and degraded into submission" followed with "Bring Back Bullying." That was back when he worked for Gawker, and it cost them Adobe as a sponsor.

ObsidianJones:
If Silentpony is correct that Punisher was considered an average and run-of-the-mill gamer to be overlooked by Professional Teams as a Guy, but stellar enough playing the same way as a female to be scouted for a professional team, this is will be considered a tactical advantage akin to discovering Gun Powder for the Anti-SJW group.

And that's bad. That would be really, really bad. It is my fear that this would be worse than Gamergate simply because in their minds, they will have tangible proof that their best efforts will mean nothing for them simply for being a guy. With their persecution complex, That will be igniting that Gun Powder I previously spoke of.

There was already similar anti-SJW gunpowder in publishing, in which a guy tried to publish a poem repeatedly to no success, until he switched to an Asian-sounding pseudonym and got more or less immediately published. There was also a vegan food blog with a fantastic potato salad recipe that was a wonderful thing when (despite being anonymous) it was perceived to have black writers based on writing style -- when it turned out they were white it became a "problem."

undeadsuitor:

Think you can get in just by aceing the sat? Nah, you need extracurriculars, and club leaderships, and special skills

"Special skills" like being assumed to have a vagina, apparently.

undeadsuitor:
So yeah, a rare girl being scouted for a team before a dude is a logical outcome of this situation.

Remember, not giving women preferential treatment on the basis of sex is sexism, and we're after *equality* which is a lack of sexism!

undeadsuitor:
And nothing is more dangerous than men realizing they aren't special.

Yep, they're not special, unlike women who are similarly capable...wait...that can't be right...

undeadsuitor:
Given that it wasn't a week after a female was introduced into the enclosure that men started threatening to doxx them, i would say it's yet another pin in the obvious "competitive game is a pit of toxicity and misogyny" board

How dare people think something is up when there's a bunch of soft evidence that something isn't quite right...

undeadsuitor:
I mean, most dudes are aware women are treated different on the internet, and can still be surprised at the amount of harassment and doxxing they end up getting.

Yeah, and then they look at the actual research, which suggests that men actually receive slightly more online harassment on the whole, but less of a sexual nature. Women do however consider it more important whenever they do receive harassment of any form. Pew did a 2017 survey on the topic, Google is your friend.

Hell, I'd once received death threats for arguing a moderately obscure point about WoW class balance on their official forums (it amounted to arguing that one spec needed to be fixed DPS-wise before or simultaneous to equalizing two buffs because having the superior version of that one buff was the only reason the one spec saw play in raids among top tier guilds while the other spec was receiving raid slots despite having the inferior version of the buff). Apparently Shaman players are right assholes.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Gordon_4:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

No, but it is fucking tacky

Who cares? People taunt each other in literally every sport ALL THE TIME. No one cares, the players don't care, the viewers don't care. This is the first time I've ever heard people having such big issues with teabagging.

Silentpony:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is. People dedicate their lives to these games as well, playing one certain game for at least 8 hours a day and getting better and better, to say it doesn't take long to develop a real skill for a game is bs.

How can you dedicate your life to a game that's only been around for a few years?
Pro-gamers weren't practicing Overwatch 10 years ago, they were playing Magic the Gathering and watching the Dark Knight.
and in 2 or 3 years there will be another FPS game that 'pro-gamers' would have spent their whole lives training with.

For an example, there is plenty of CSGO pro's today that played CS1.6 15 years ago. You don't know what these players did 10 years ago, just because some pros are playing a game released 3 years ago doesn't mean they've never touched a FPS before or that they won't be playing for 10 more years whether it's the same game or different but similar one. These people play these games like it's their full time jobs (And then some) and then there are plenty of moments where they go to tournaments and spend 80% of their time practicing/competing, and you don't call that dedicating their lives?

undeadsuitor:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

I mean, as a taunt that supposed to tilt your opponent..isn't offending the point?

are we now surprised offending taunts are offensive? are we that defensive about this?

this is the final hill?

teabagging?

It's to throw them off their game, just like in every sport. Being teabagged is a minor annoyance, being taunted is a minor annoyance. Are we suggesting making taunting punishable because there might be 1 guy out there who's so thin skinned he's mentally scarred by being teabagged?

Majestic Manatee:
No one is offended by seeing grown people embarrass themselves like spoilt toddlers, they're only drawing pity and disappointment.

Then let them, I'm sure they'll survive without those people who never had an interest in esport and never will in the first place.

You guys act like this is something exclusive to esport, have you guys ever participated or watched any other sports ever?

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman's head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I'm leading with this?

Gordon_4:

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

Steffi, will you marry me?

You can play around with your digital avatars in games. One of the draws of esports is that you can do the same things the pros do if you just practice along a YouTube video. And that includes silly taunts like teabagging.

All I'm saying is that it's a Red Herring. Teabagging or other in-game taunts are not a factor in growing or maintaining a pro-gaming audience.

Gordon_4:

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Gordon_4:

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about getting tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I'd afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker's cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that's the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you're not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

Gordon_4:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Gordon_4:

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about getting tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I?d afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker?s cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that?s the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you?re not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

Tbagging is just a fun and trivial thing to do in a video game, if that one thing keeps anyone from respecting a player then screw them, they clearly don't understand and never will. If the one teabagging, the one getting teabagged and the people who are watching the tbagging doesn't care, why should you care even in the slightest? It's not a big deal for anyone involved, it's just an easy way to taunt in video games. Athletes taunt each other all the time in every sport, in video games it's obviously going to be very different because you can't control your character very well so there aren't a lot of options usually.

Esports don't need the ''respect'' from people who have no clue about gaming culture though, either you get it or you don't, you can't expect everyone to enjoy the culture of a sport/game.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Gordon_4:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about getting tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I?d afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker?s cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that?s the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you?re not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

Tbagging is just a fun and trivial thing to do in a video game, if that one thing keeps anyone from respecting a player then screw them, they clearly don't understand and never will. If the one teabagging, the one getting teabagged and the people who are watching the tbagging doesn't care, why should you care even in the slightest? It's not a big deal for anyone involved, it's just an easy way to taunt in video games. Athletes taunt each other all the time in every sport, in video games it's obviously going to be very different because you can't control your character very well so there aren't a lot of options usually.

Esports don't need the ''respect'' from people who have no clue about gaming culture though, either you get it or you don't, you can't expect everyone to enjoy the culture of a sport/game.

Sunflower I cut my teeth on CS1.6, Quake and Soldier of Fortune. I get why people tbag players: I just think it's fucking tacky and crass. I get gaming culture, though sometimes I wish I didn't. Like I said, this criticism is restricted to pro-level eSports events only. What you do on your private matches is up to you. But Leagues have rules; they have umpires and they have standards of behaviour and any athlete ignores them at their peril.

Gordon_4:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Gordon_4:

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I?d afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker?s cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that?s the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you?re not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

Tbagging is just a fun and trivial thing to do in a video game, if that one thing keeps anyone from respecting a player then screw them, they clearly don't understand and never will. If the one teabagging, the one getting teabagged and the people who are watching the tbagging doesn't care, why should you care even in the slightest? It's not a big deal for anyone involved, it's just an easy way to taunt in video games. Athletes taunt each other all the time in every sport, in video games it's obviously going to be very different because you can't control your character very well so there aren't a lot of options usually.

Esports don't need the ''respect'' from people who have no clue about gaming culture though, either you get it or you don't, you can't expect everyone to enjoy the culture of a sport/game.

Sunflower I cut my teeth on CS1.6, Quake and Soldier of Fortune. I get why people tbag players: I just think it?s fucking tacky and crass. I get gaming culture, though sometimes I wish I didn?t. Like I said, this criticism is restricted to pro-level eSports events only. What you do on your private matches is up to you. But Leagues have rules; they have umpires and they have standards of behaviour and any athlete ignores them at their peril.

Tbagging doesn't happen enough in esport to be a real problem though, when I was watching CSGO I never once saw a player tbag another player, not that I can recall anyway. I'm sure it happens but it's not an epidemic that needs to be dealt with, maybe if it happened frequently I could maybe agree that it's a problem. As of now it's just barely a thing in esports but when it happens it's just to poke fun at you opponents with no hard feelings between them.

I think if games gave players more options to express themselves through emotes (Like in Fortnite) tbagging would be non-existant.

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