Is Doom the only gaming franchise where each and every game is Masterpiece?

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Hello friends,

So i have looking into like every other franchise. and every series has atleast one bad game or black sheep or a game that is good but not as good as other. Even Half life has episode 1 which suck imo.

Enter Doom, there are 4 main games and all 4 main games has been masterpieces for thier respected era.

Doom 1 and 2 might be dated for today standard but in 1993 Doom was just something really new. pretty much pioneer FPS genre and released at a time when there were no or very little 3D games at all. although wolf 3d was first FPS but Doom was the game that pretty much invented the genre.

Doom 3 released in 2004 and was masterpiece along with Half life 2. it was Half life equivalent and when i first played it. i was blown away. it was dark, horror, scary and very different approach to original games.

Then Doom reboot released in 2016 and become easily best game of this generation and also best FPS of decade. amazing game, back to original roots with some modern mechanics althought it should not be arena lockdown but its combat is so so great that it never feel boring.

Now this fall. Doom Eternal is releasing (RIP fall 2019) and taking more crazy approach, the first modern Doom game set on earth and looks and feel so amazing. demons are destructable, dashing mechainics, grappling, climb via pole etc. another Doom game that feel like masterpiece.

I cannot think of any other gaming franchise that has all games equally amazing.

so what do you think my friend? lets discuss

Honestly, I prefer either of the new Wolfenstein games to Doom 2016. Doom had very lackluster level design and I disliked the focus on arenas in favor of something more organic.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Honestly, I prefer either of the new Wolfenstein games to Doom 2016. Doom had very lackluster level design and I disliked the focus on arenas in favor of something more organic.

come on, wolfenstein 2 level design is terrible however Doom 2016 has one of the best level design this gen. foundry is amazing level. although i dont mind arena lockdown but Eternal is fixing this issue based on gameplay.

B-Cell:

PsychedelicDiamond:
Honestly, I prefer either of the new Wolfenstein games to Doom 2016. Doom had very lackluster level design and I disliked the focus on arenas in favor of something more organic.

come on, wolfenstein 2 level design is terrible however Doom 2016 has one of the best level design this gen. foundry is amazing level. although i dont mind arena lockdown but Eternal is fixing this issue based on gameplay.

doom has the best level design? What?

Are you just trying to start flame threads now?

This is probably the first time I've heard anyone call Doom 3 a masterpiece. I'm pretty sure even at the time nobody was really thinking "Man, this is the most amazing game I've played yet".

I mean, other then B-Cell. I'd argue Dark Forces as a better FPS then either Doom or Doom 2, despite it's flaws.

Also, I'm gonna go with a no. Both because of Doom 3 and because I'm sure there are other series that one could make a better argument for.

Samos205:

doom has the best level design? What?

Are you just trying to start flame threads now?

I'm gonna be really nice and say I suspect B-Cell has a very small reference pool he works off of. That or he has a very, very specific set of citeria of what he thinks is "Great" and everything that falls outside that is shit. Somehow Doom and Metro pretty much are the only things that fall in that small band for reasons I don't quite get.

Dalisclock:
This is probably the first time I've heard anyone call Doom 3 a masterpiece. I'm pretty sure even at the time nobody was really thinking "Man, this is the most amazing game I've played yet".

I mean, other then B-Cell.

Also, I'm gonna go with a no. Both because of Doom 3 and because I'm sure there are other series that one could make a better arguement for.

every franchise has atleast one bad game. Deus Ex has invisible wars and mankind divided is not as good as Human Revolution.

Resident evil has 6. and many argue that 5 was disappointing.

People disliked Doom 3 on release IIRC anfdpeople are lukewarm in it to this day. Doom 64 isn't great. Doom on the Saturn was a big pile of shite. Final Doom is pretty meh.

I look forward to your goalpost shifting.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
People disliked Doom 3 on release IIRC anfdpeople are lukewarm in it to this day. Doom 64 isn't great. Doom on the Saturn was a big pile of shite. Final Doom is pretty meh.

I look forward to your goalpost shifting.

not counting spin off because we are talking about 4 main games. yes Doom 3 was hated but it was critical and commercial success. and one of the best FPS of 2004 along with HL2 and Riddick.

I mean, I don't agree with your assessment of every Doom game being a 'masterpiece' and I think people are too quick to use that term anyway.

Are we talking about personal taste or critical success here? I'm pretty sure, irrespective of your personal feelings towards them, all the mainline GTA games were very successful and are still held in pretty high regard, as is the mainline Mario series and the Batman Arkham series (just off the top of my head). I'm happy to be called out on these but, as others have said, Doom 3 is definitely not considered a masterpiece by most people.

B-Cell:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
People disliked Doom 3 on release IIRC anfdpeople are lukewarm in it to this day. Doom 64 isn't great. Doom on the Saturn was a big pile of shite. Final Doom is pretty meh.

I look forward to your goalpost shifting.

not counting spin off because we are talking about 4 main games. yes Doom 3 was hated but it was critical and commercial success. and one of the best FPS of 2004 along with HL2 and Riddick.

You said "each and every" Doom game. Are the games I not mentioned not Doom games? Doom 64 is even a follow up to Doom.

What stuns me more isnthat I called out that you would shift the goal posts to try and stop you from doing it and you still did it.

Doom 2 is divisive among the fanbase.

Same for Doom 3.

So no. Turns out when you get it right the first time, tinkering with the idea may not always produce better results.

Doom 3 was universally thought of as bad as far as I remember, the others are pretty great though.

MrCalavera:
Doom 2 is divisive among the fanbase.

Same for Doom 3.

So no. Turns out when you get it right the first time, tinkering with the idea may not always produce better results.

Doom II was divisive?

Bless you B-Cell, for your dedication and conviction.

I don't agree with you, mind, but mainly because I technically cannot comply- I haven't played any of the new DOOM games.

I did live on the original DOOM and DOOM II in the 90s, though. Smashing fun. I loved designing my own levels as well. A simple polygon editor in hindsight, but still- re-created my parent's house, made some awesome churches that would transform into hell pits, designed some new monsters in softimage and exported the sprite sequences... all good times.

You're wrong.

This is the case with Kirby.

Aerosteam:
You're wrong.

This is the case with Kirby.

I was thinking Half-Life and Portal.

Dreiko:
Doom 3 was universally thought of as bad as far as I remember, the others are pretty great though.

This.

DOOM 3 was just later considered an ok game, but not really a good DOOM game. I relatively recently went back and played DOOM 3 and like, its a pretty standard linear shooter of that era's style.

Oh look the 1-trick pony made another thread about how Doom is the best shit ever. See also his other greatest hits of "Metro is the sex", and "Girls are so lame".

I enjoyed Doom 3 a fair bit, but there's no way it stands alongside HL2. It's even outclassed by other horror shooters of a similar age like the original F.E.A.R.

The original Doom is my alltime favorite game and I even say no. No no no no no.

Doom 3 and Final Doom were definitely not masterpieces. Typical B-Cell posturing.

CritialGaming:
Oh look the 1-trick pony made another thread about how Doom is the best shit ever. See also his other greatest hits of "Metro is the sex", and "Girls are so lame".

my favorite was his B-side (C WUT I DID THAR?!) "Romance has no place in Cyberpunk" as sung to a man who GM'd and played the original P&P tabletop since the 90's.

Silvanus:
I enjoyed Doom 3 a fair bit, but there's no way it stands alongside HL2. It's even outclassed by other horror shooters of a similar age like the original F.E.A.R.

And it didn't even hold a candle to Undying.

Gordon_4:

MrCalavera:
Doom 2 is divisive among the fanbase.

Same for Doom 3.

So no. Turns out when you get it right the first time, tinkering with the idea may not always produce better results.

Doom II was divisive?

You had the same reaction I did. I mean, the general concensus at the time was "Okay, it's more of the same, but we don't mind, as the same is still pretty damned good, so it rocks."

Only the first DOOM can be called a masterpiece and only because it was the first of its kind. But I wouldn't touch it today unless you paid me. Which is typically not a masterpiece trait. Masterpieces are timeless.

Also, Borderlands is better. It lets you play as a gurl! Borderlands 2 is even betterer. It lets you play as two gurls!

Try replaying Doom 3 with fresh eyes, then come back telling me what a 'masterpiece' it is.

Just a dark, boring, repetitive slog with terrible controls and jumpscares.

B-Cell:

PsychedelicDiamond:
Honestly, I prefer either of the new Wolfenstein games to Doom 2016. Doom had very lackluster level design and I disliked the focus on arenas in favor of something more organic.

come on, wolfenstein 2 level design is terrible however Doom 2016 has one of the best level design this gen. foundry is amazing level. although i dont mind arena lockdown but Eternal is fixing this issue based on gameplay.

Foundry was cool. (Most of) the rest were pretty humdrum. Nevermind the platforming segments like Argent Tower (and two of the three boss fights)

Its like saying Titanfall 2's missions had awesome design because of the time travel/portal one, or the sideways house factory. While leaving out the half-dozen linear plods, the entire mission wielding an auto-aim instakill gun, and the annoying ass one where you had to find levers and painstakingly rotate panels to wall jump off of.

As to the main point. Doom 3 was kind of meh, generic jumpscare fodder with that terrible light mechanic. Doom the First out of its time and place is nothing to write home about. Doom 64, which you've elected to leave out of your appraisal was blegh.

Adam Jensen:

Also, Borderlands is better. It lets you play as a gurl! Borderlands 2 is even betterer. It lets you play as two gurls!

Rage 2 looks like if borderlands was good game.

B-Cell:
Rage 2 looks like if borderlands was good game.

At least pretend to give a shit by comparing it to a released product.

Gordon_4:

MrCalavera:
Doom 2 is divisive among the fanbase.

Same for Doom 3.

So no. Turns out when you get it right the first time, tinkering with the idea may not always produce better results.

Doom II was divisive?

I know Doom fans that say II improved nothing over OG Doom, barring Super Shotgun, maybe.
That and actually made level design worse. Perhaps it's more accurate to say it's divisive NOW, among people who still play classic games.

MrCalavera:

Gordon_4:

MrCalavera:
Doom 2 is divisive among the fanbase.

Same for Doom 3.

So no. Turns out when you get it right the first time, tinkering with the idea may not always produce better results.

Doom II was divisive?

I know Doom fans that say II improved nothing over OG Doom, barring Super Shotgun, maybe.
That and actually made level design worse. Perhaps it's more accurate to say it's divisive NOW, among people who still play classic games.

They added some pretty awesome enemies (Archvile and Revenant, etc), Super Shotgun was admittedly great but made PVP multiplayer awful since everybody used it exclusively. (admittedly that was back when you can and did walk over and smack them if someone got too annoying)

Also had one of the most disappointing (on multiple levels) final bosses in gaming history.

Doom 2&3 are meh. Doom 2 doesn't build enough on Doom 1 to be a masterpiece in its own right. Doom 3 has some great texture work that was influential in the industry, and... And... I liked the way you interact with screens?

Dalisclock:

Samos205:

doom has the best level design? What?

Are you just trying to start flame threads now?

I'm gonna be really nice and say I suspect B-Cell has a very small reference pool he works off of. That or he has a very, very specific set of citeria of what he thinks is "Great" and everything that falls outside that is shit.

His criteria is a) FPS and b) no women.

B-Cell:

Hello friends

Have you ever addressed the women thing? It comes up occasionally in B-Cell threads, something about refusal to play female characters?

One day, B-Cell is going to step outside his comfort zone and discover joy.

Alas, today is not that day.

B-Cell:

So i have looking into like every other franchise. and every series has atleast one bad game or black sheep or a game that is good but not as good as other.

That's...highly suspect. And Doom 3 is already the black sheep of the Doom franchise, so you're kind of nuking your point out of the gate.

Even Half life has episode 1 which suck imo.

So you're including Ep. 1 as a mainline Half-Life installment, but not any Doom game outside the main four?

Kind of a double standard there, even if I agree that Ep. 1 is lacklustre.

Enter Doom, there are 4 main games and all 4 main games has been masterpieces for thier respected era.

Okay, let me stop you there.

Doom 1? Sure. Doom 2? Very dubious. I mean, seriously, Doom 2 is basically just an expansion to Doom 1, and whether it's better or not, I don't think it can be called a "masterpiece."

Doom 3 is a game I actually really like (it's actually my favorite in the series), but that's an uncommon opinion, and it's very much the black sheep of the franchise in both a gameplay and lore sense.

Doom 2016? Okay, everyone knows how much I dislike the game, but sure, let's assume it's a masterpiece by virtue of consensus. At the very best, that leaves us with a 50% "masterpiece" rate, and one black sheep. That's not even including stuff like spinoffs and expansions.

I cannot think of any other gaming franchise that has all games equally amazing.

I can name plenty.

Not including The Lost Mission as its own thing, I can say I've liked about 50% of all Doom games I've played. There's plenty of series that have a higher "like" rate for me, including 100%.

B-Cell:

every franchise has atleast one bad game.

-Advance Wars

-Diablo

-Golden Sun

-StarCraft

Name me a genuinely "bad" game in any of those series.

(I'd also include Legend of Zelda, but the CDi games exist, so...)

Silvanus:
I enjoyed Doom 3 a fair bit, but there's no way it stands alongside HL2.

D3>HL2.

Yep, I said it.

Also, The Witcher is the only masterpiece franchise.

Hawki:

B-Cell:

every franchise has atleast one bad game.

-Advance Wars

-Diablo

-Golden Sun

-StarCraft

Name me a genuinely "bad" game in any of those series.

Diablo Immortal.

I'd also like to mention how generic looking that header image looks, Because every time I see it, I mistake it for master chiefs helmet

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