DoA6 gets too sexy during Evo stream, feed gets cut and apologies ensue

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*sigh*

Looks like the prudish Western mentality has crept overseas. Waiting for them to remove all unlockable costumes that show more the face and appendages now.

Sex is bad mmkay.

PFFFFFFFF, prudish Western mentality. Hate to break it to you, Japan is pretty prudish too.

Who cares about some pansies getting offended? DOA6 is going to make its money regardless. Yet, I bet when MK 11 gets streamed, no one will cut the feed. So much for "morals and standards". Or the false appearance of them.

This is really good marketing for the game. "Too hot for Evo". Practically writes itself.

(though, of course, people not clicking the link will not realize this wasn't really about the game but about the models replicating boob physics in real life to extol the virtues of the game XD)

https://twitter.com/playasia/status/1096339906018762753

erttheking:
PFFFFFFFF, prudish Western mentality. Hate to break it to you, Japan is pretty prudish too.

Yeah they censor their own Porn to a almost absurdist degree. Ever seen a JAV? Its 90% squeaking and 10% blurring pixels.

Evo is for fighting games, not porn.

Anybody else remember this thread? https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.1056629-Dead-or-Alive-6-Creator-Director-Shimbori-Asks-Why-does-DoA-get-so-much-flak-vs-other-games
Seems obvious is retrospect.

Marik2:
Meanwhile at Nintendo

https://kotaku.com/porn-star-comes-to-the-nintendo-switch-1832643719

Considering they cut loose their old PR rep for off duty escort work, that's pretty ballsy.

Some of those kotaku comments are really stupid. They are making it out as some sort of abuse case, where these women are being forced to humiliate themselves.

They are gravure idols. Those girls are the ones who are getting the player to pause at inappropriate times. How does anyone possibly jump to abuse? It's almost like they are making highly irrelevant shit up because they are being called out for being offended by a sex pose...

The other stupid comment is that this isn't appropriate for a professional live-stream. I'm just going to leave this video here:

erttheking:
PFFFFFFFF, prudish Western mentality. Hate to break it to you, Japan is pretty prudish too.

This is what happens when people don't actually study Japanese culture and society outside of pop culture.

As for DOA6, sounds to me like the current Team Ninja still has a LONG way to go. Best keep them on a leash, Shibusawa

Silentpony:

erttheking:
PFFFFFFFF, prudish Western mentality. Hate to break it to you, Japan is pretty prudish too.

Yeah they censor their own Porn to a almost absurdist degree. Ever seen a JAV? Its 90% squeaking and 10% blurring pixels.

Even outside of that. They have weird rules about open mouth kissing on TV shows and public displays of affection are a no-no generally.

Watched the offending footage and man, that's a 12 year old's idea of sexy. It's only one level above typing 5318008 into a calculator and holding it upside down.

I'm half inclined to say slapping DoA6 was justified. But not for being too sexy. For being so juvenile and pathetic at it.

hanselthecaretaker:
*sigh*

Looks like the prudish Western mentality has crept overseas. Waiting for them to remove all unlockable costumes that show more the face and appendages now.

Sex is bad mmkay.

You know Japan censors its own porn right? And have you seen the Japanese version of Resident Evil 2? Where was all the outrage over that being censored? Just because Japan likes its (sometimes underage) fanservice doesn't mean it's more open minded or liberal than the West. It really isn't.

Anyway, it seems weird for them to censor this since there's sexy girls sqeaking and bounching around as it's happening, but then Japan is more strict on anything involving the genitals. And.. that was just cringey to watch. 'Look, his mouth is on her snatch.*hyuck*'

altnameJag:
Anybody else remember this thread? https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.1056629-Dead-or-Alive-6-Creator-Director-Shimbori-Asks-Why-does-DoA-get-so-much-flak-vs-other-games
Seems obvious is retrospect.

Indeed.

Aiddon:

erttheking:
PFFFFFFFF, prudish Western mentality. Hate to break it to you, Japan is pretty prudish too.

This is what happens when people don't actually study Japanese culture and society outside of pop culture.

As for DOA6, sounds to me like the current Team Ninja still has a LONG way to go. Best keep them on a leash, Shibusawa

Not only that but considering that "Western" also tends to mean most of Europe not only the US, it is a unfitting phrase.

Saelune:
Evo is for fighting games, not porn.

Well, for the rest of us, Evo is only on the internet.

And as we all know.. The Internet is for Porn

All joking aside, people do have to understand that this is more than just a prudish culture. Parents are not prudes or regressed if they want to decide how to expose their children to sex. And let's be honest, the majority of us were exposed to video games when we were children. I know my dad bought us our first Colecovision when I was like... 3? I had no chance to be anything but a gamer.

In fact, it would be interesting to see what percentage of gamers never touched a video game until their adult life...

Anyway, we might be adults now, but we still do have children in our culture. We can't just say "Oh, they'll get used to it" when they aren't our kids and we don't have to deal with the ramifications of mixed messages.

You can't tell children that women are more than just sexual objects, and these games aren't an accurate description of reality... and then have Japanese Porn Stars show off 'real life Jiggle Physics'.

Now, to actually address the comments on the article, one person said that the ultra blood and gore of MK11 is fine to show on stream, but the female body being sexy is too risque. And there's somewhat of a double standard there.

However, as a commenter pointed out before I got the chance to... They aren't bringing out a guy with a knife on stage and miming actually tearing out someone else's eye.

Lastly, like all media, it has a Rating for an age appropriate experience. Mortal Kombat X has a M rating. Dead or Alive 5 (and most likely 6) has a mature rating. Those parents buying the product for their child have been warned.

And for the most part, people tuning into fighting game streams have some idea of what the game is. But 'extras' like live-action jiggle physics is a throwback to Booth Babes which has been falling out of favor here for a long period of time. I understand the reaction.

To sum up, just because I'm adult enough to pick and choose what I consume doesn't mean everyone else is. And I understand if what's is being presented is ok for me but in poor taste for others.

I really don't buy the "think of the children" line. You can see way worse things on your phone as a modern kid and I'm sure most kids watching evo will have seen at least something equally as suggestive before this evo, whatever their parents may or may not desire for them. Also I don't think sex or knowledge about sex is in any way inherently corrupting or nefarious, in fact I deem that notion as prudish and repressed, so I also don't buy that there's some harm that can come from what's basically a Victoria's Secret girl bouncing a bit.

Evo will be memed pretty hard for this. It's not like they're against cosplayers/booth babes on their grounds or anything, either. Lots of professional cosplayers come even from Japan to attend evo. Maybe the two ladies will become famous enough and perform a recreation of it next summer.

Its a fighting game tournament. It is for fighting games. It is not for porn. If they want to make a porn game championship, then have all the porn games you want there.

It has nothing to do with prudishness, it has nothing to do with children. It has to do with EVO is about fighting games, and DOA is not about fighting.

Evo has mutated from a pure fighting game tournament to more akin to a fighting game convention/tourney hybrid over the years, it has panels and stuff you don't normally associate with tourneys. It's definitely not that outlandish to have cosplayers and whatnot.

As for DoA, I classify its sexual content in the same way as I would classify single player content and storymodes and so on in other games, something there to sell the game to the casuals or to new people with. So it's something they'll market it with cause the deep mechanics won't be as appealing to the vast majority of people outside of the competitive folks, which tend to be a very small segment of the playerbase. I remember reading this crazy stat that something like 40% of people don't even do netplay in most fighters, never mind being competitive lol.

I'm surprised Japan would put booth babes in a stream.

Aren't they a little old for over there?

Am I too cynical to think that Tecmo-Koei orchestrated or was hoping for exactly this to stand out?

Also, great, now GamerGate has something to rally around the flag about again.

Smithnikov:

Am I too cynical to think that Tecmo-Koei orchestrated or was hoping for exactly this to stand out?

Also, great, now GamerGate has something to rally around the flag about again.

Sweet! YT videos work again!

undeadsuitor:
I'm surprised Japan would put booth babes in a stream.

Aren't they a little old for over there?

They have no shortage of gravure models looking to sell their dignity for money.

altnameJag:
Anybody else remember this thread? https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.1056629-Dead-or-Alive-6-Creator-Director-Shimbori-Asks-Why-does-DoA-get-so-much-flak-vs-other-games
Seems obvious is retrospect.

Marik2:
Meanwhile at Nintendo

https://kotaku.com/porn-star-comes-to-the-nintendo-switch-1832643719

Considering they cut loose their old PR rep for off duty escort work, that's pretty ballsy.

Then again a JAV actress who does mainstream stuff was like how game dev used to hire pornstars as actresses for their fmv scenes or as guest stars to express their fame and influence.

But these days it is all about kale smoothies and yoga

CoCage:
Who cares about some pansies getting offended?

100% this.

hanselthecaretaker:
*sigh*

Looks like the prudish Western mentality has crept overseas. Waiting for them to remove all unlockable costumes that show more the face and appendages now.

Sex is bad mmkay.

BTW those girls are icky.

Well, you can't accuse the people at Team Ninja of not knowing their audience.

Marik2:

hanselthecaretaker:
*sigh*

Looks like the prudish Western mentality has crept overseas. Waiting for them to remove all unlockable costumes that show more the face and appendages now.

Sex is bad mmkay.

BTW those girls are icky.

Yeah they could've picked better but as you probably know the point is it's silly to make a fuss over something so harmless and done for pure entertainment value, no matter how juvenile it may be. Hell, that's half of the appeal the series built itself on. Never mind that when it comes to sexual content, Japan's Hentai scene is far more explicit than anything in DoA "Extreme" let alone its much tamer DoA counterpart.

Phoenixmgs:

CoCage:
Who cares about some pansies getting offended?

100% this.

People who are offended shouldn't spout how people shouldn't care how offended people feel.

Saelune:

Phoenixmgs:

CoCage:
Who cares about some pansies getting offended?

100% this.

People who are offended shouldn't spout how people shouldn't care how offended people feel.

Uh... Is that missing a 'not' or has too many 'nots' or I'm reading it wrong because it ain't making sense.

Phoenixmgs:

Saelune:

Phoenixmgs:

100% this.

People who are offended shouldn't spout how people shouldn't care how offended people feel.

Uh... Is that missing a 'not' or has too many 'nots' or I'm reading it wrong because it ain't making sense.

I am saying the people upset that DOA was removed are the ones who are offended, so for someone upset and thus offended, to say 'who cares about people being offended' is self-defeating because they are basically saying we should not care about them.

Saelune:
I am saying the people upset that DOA was removed are the ones who are offended, so for someone upset and thus offended, to say 'who cares about people being offended' is self-defeating because they are basically saying we should not care about them.

I was saying that I literally couldn't care less if some game stream was pulled or not pulled for whatever the reasons.

Phoenixmgs:

Saelune:
I am saying the people upset that DOA was removed are the ones who are offended, so for someone upset and thus offended, to say 'who cares about people being offended' is self-defeating because they are basically saying we should not care about them.

I was saying that I literally couldn't care less if some game stream was pulled or not pulled for whatever the reasons.

I suppose my message was more directed at CoCage than you then.

Saelune:

Phoenixmgs:

Saelune:
I am saying the people upset that DOA was removed are the ones who are offended, so for someone upset and thus offended, to say 'who cares about people being offended' is self-defeating because they are basically saying we should not care about them.

I was saying that I literally couldn't care less if some game stream was pulled or not pulled for whatever the reasons.

I suppose my message was more directed at CoCage than you then.

Then you'll need to hope that CoCage was originally offended. Otherwise it falls flat, even if what you're saying does indeed make sense.

hanselthecaretaker:

Marik2:

hanselthecaretaker:
*sigh*

Looks like the prudish Western mentality has crept overseas. Waiting for them to remove all unlockable costumes that show more the face and appendages now.

Sex is bad mmkay.

BTW those girls are icky.

Yeah they could?ve picked better but as you probably know the point is it?s silly to make a fuss over something so harmless and done for pure entertainment value, no matter how juvenile it may be. Hell, that?s half of the appeal the series built itself on. Never mind that when it comes to sexual content, Japan?s Hentai scene is far more explicit than anything in DoA ?Extreme? let alone its much tamer DoA counterpart.

If Evo Japan is trying present themselves as respectable, a set of skits that went on for far too long would probably get shut down.

Remember, they didn't shut down the stream over booth babes. They didn't shut down the stream when said booth babes were wearing cut up clothes and slapping each other on the ass. They shut down the stream on the third strike, pausing the in game models at a part where it looked like they were in the middle of a sex act. They let the DOA PR team get away with plenty of juvenile humor before they eventually pulled the plug.

Remember, the actual devs are trying to say this version of the game is more than just T&A.

Saelune:

Phoenixmgs:

Saelune:
People who are offended shouldn't spout how people shouldn't care how offended people feel.

Uh... Is that missing a 'not' or has too many 'nots' or I'm reading it wrong because it ain't making sense.

I am saying the people upset that DOA was removed are the ones who are offended, so for someone upset and thus offended, to say 'who cares about people being offended' is self-defeating because they are basically saying we should not care about them.

You missed the mark a thousand miles back that way. I am not offended in the slightest, so you really don't know me. Similar to Phoenix, I don't care for people getting "offended" over some T&A, nor it being banned from EVO of all places. And Squilookle is right, what you said falls flat, hard. I don't know if you are trying to start something Saelune, but please stop it, if that's the case. I am not doing any pointless back and forth arguments that go nowhere.

Dreiko:
Evo has mutated from a pure fighting game tournament to more akin to a fighting game convention/tourney hybrid over the years...

And, as we saw a few years back starting with the R. Mika non-troversy, EVO's going whole hog on the censorship bandwagon. Unfortunately for those ideologically-minded folks, as we saw with the R. Mika thing the "core value" at hand is "we like money". It's a response to pressure from networks and sponsors to keep things "PG-13", not a principled stand of any real sort.

...cause the deep mechanics won't be as appealing to the vast majority of people outside of the competitive folks, which tend to be a very small segment of the playerbase...

I have an alternative theory about the DOA series' evolution.

Back in the first two, three games, the women's costumes were actually downright conservative compared to that of other major fighting games. This was back when SNK ruled the roost in "competitive" fighting games, for what the FGC was back then. Sure, Street Fighter was the best-known game series, but if you were a "serious" fighting game fan, it was SNK or nothing. SNK used to be downright infamous for its skimpy and ridiculous women's costumes -- this was the company that birthed Mai, for chrissake -- and nobody really gave a damn. Let's not forget, SNK was the company that was the origin of the "breast physics in fighting games" meme, in fact.

What I think happened, was the nascent FGC rejected DOA's mechanics. DOA as a series lives in reactive gameplay, punishment, and large damage-per-hit leading to incredibly short matches. That doesn't jive with most gamers' preference towards proactive gameplay, chip damage, and flashy, protracted combos. But, most important, it doesn't make for a game that's particularly easy or fun to spectate.

In light of that, Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja needed a marketing edge. They noted how SNK marketed its fighting games (sex appeal for days), and noted the influence of SNK's marketing on major competitors, Capcom and Bandai Namco. Koei/TN made it their mission to "out-SNK" SNK, and the end result was the excess of sex appeal in the series starting with DoA 3. Unfortunately, the decision backfired, and with the development and release of DoAX (which funny enough, actually wasn't a half-bad volleyball game) most fighting game fans wrote the series off as being a shallow fan service engine.

Meanwhile, because DoA had everyone's attention, SNK managed to dodge any and all blowback it may have had coming.

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