Fortnite streamer knowingly cheats, gets banned, then cries about it

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Elvis Starburst:
But then I also consider that he promotes the game strongly with his large userbase, profits off Fortnite, acts as advertisement, and even was part of a professional esports team. As such, his content can be see as easy promotion. In that cheating video, he promoted cheating, which heavily affects Epic, as people may try and do what he did and give them more problems. This can negatively affect their game and brand. I sure wouldn't want someone with that kind of reach to be able to come back and profit from me ever again, personally.

That's fair, and had Epic come out and said this was the reason (and they may have; I don't know,) I'd not bat an eye; it's just the ham-fisted application of the "law" that gives me pause. That, and an admitted long-running spite towards devs and publishers over the past several years, churning out lackluster products at "full-luster and then some" prices; feels a little hypocritical that they take any sort of moral stance when they've generally eschewed morals for monies a long time ago...

Squilookle:

Xprimentyl:
I also believe in degrees of transgression. No, being more popular than the average Joe shouldn?t afford FaZe any special privilege, but I also know (well, ?assume?) he was a popular outlet for their product, and his actions, while idiotic and thoughtless, were clearly for entertainment and not maliciously intended; he felt he was just doing his job (in a ?different? way, but his job nonetheless;) treating him exactly as someone who uses aim bots to cheat surreptitiously for personal gain just seems harsh. Intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter, and Epic chose to prescribe the death penalty for both. BUT, it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

But why? His intent does not matter when the crime is so clear cut- you use a cheat, you get banned. I could be an advocate for electric cars and a sustainable future, but if I use my electric car to go rob a bank, I'm still a bank robber. He may use Fortnite for his livelihood, but that should not make the standard, written down consequence for cheating any less severe, and he should not be treated any different to someone else that does the same. The crime itself here is the constant. Anything else is superfluous. Honestly if you really want to differentiate him from an anonymous player that cheats for fun, you could say he is MORE culpable, for not only showcasing the cheat but explaining the procedure for its use to MILLIONS OF PEOPLE! Making an example of this kid to that same fanbase was effectively the only thing Epic could do. The streamer should have known far better than to do something so utterly stupid in the first place.

A wise man once said:

Xprimentyl:
it's just a game, and it's Epic's game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

Same guy also said:

Xprimentyl:
All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn't care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

Elvis Starburst:

CaitSeith:
I couldn't care less about this drama: he cheated, he got caught, he got banned, he is sorry and learned his lesson.

It seems that the system worked, so why is this worth of our attention?

Entertainment, content, discussion that came with it, maybe some laughs. If you don't care for the topic, I'm not sure why you're telling us you don't?

In a world where entitled jerks get caught red handed, get banned and then insist they were in the right and just keep causing more trouble for everyone involved; mocking this kid for learning his lesson seems wrong. Shouldn't we rather mock those who don't stop thinking their bad actions don't have consequences instead?

Lufia Erim:
He makes more money a month than most people here make all year.

He's going to be okay.

How much is that in net dollars?

Xprimentyl:

Xprimentyl:
it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

Xprimentyl:
All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn?t care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

Then what the hell are you even doing here? If you're not here to debate, why do you bother to engage at all? Surely you're not just doing it to quote yourself, as that would be too sad for words. But I'm genuinely curious as to what your end game here is- if there is indeed an end game here at all. What's the deal? What's your plan here?

CaitSeith:
In a world where entitled jerks get caught red handed, get banned and then insist they were in the right and just keep causing more trouble for everyone involved; mocking this kid for learning his lesson seems wrong. Shouldn't we rather mock those who don't stop thinking their bad actions don't have consequences instead?

I could easily add in a whole paragraph bout the idiots who insist it was completely unjustified and are pushing for Epic to change their mind, but I didn't. And yes, I did make this topic to also mock the situation, but it's because I have little sympathy for someone who intentionally cheated, made multiple levels of effort to avoid punishment, then are acting so deeply upset when the actions they were intentionally avoiding caught up to them anyways.

But honestly, dude... I just saw a stupid and silly thing happen that blew up in a massive way and I made a post about it also saying how stupid and silly it was because we didn't have a post about it and I felt like making one. Like... It's content. Enjoy it or not. Don't wanna view it? Don't. Or do. Who cares.

Don't come into a conversation you don't like and say "OH MY GOD, who cares? I don't! Talk about this, or make a topic about this! That would be a better topic than this one!" You have entire websites of content at the palm of your hands, and endless opportunities to make your own content posts on them. So go do that instead.

Edit: And yes, you're right, people in that situation are the better ones to mock. But I simply didn't make a topic about them, cause it's not what I came across and not what I decided to make a topic about

Squilookle:

Xprimentyl:

Xprimentyl:
it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

Xprimentyl:
All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn?t care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

Then what the hell are you even doing here? If you're not here to debate, why do you bother to engage at all? Surely you're not just doing it to quote yourself, as that would be too sad for words. But I'm genuinely curious as to what your end game here is- if there is indeed an end game here at all. What's the deal? What's your plan here?

I'm here because I have an Escapist account. Also here to share my perspective. I'm not here to change minds. I don't have a plan. I quoted myself because I made those things clear. That's what the hell I'm doing here.

I mean, major league athletes who knowingly cheat *also* lose access to their income stream, and most of them are smart enough to try and hide it. I'd expect lifetime bans from "here's me showing you how to cheat at high school sports" too.

altnameJag:
I mean, major league athletes who knowingly cheat *also* lose access to their income stream, and most of them are smart enough to try and hide it. I'd expect lifetime bans from "here's me showing you how to cheat at high school sports" too.

You know how Jarvis is a member of FaZe, a pro esport team? I wonder how many of his fans who feel his punishment should be reduced because "it's just a game", also get butthurt when someone says esports aren't real sports. I mean, you want esport be taken seriously, you have to accept certain professional standards must be upheld. You can't expect to have it both ways.

Xprimentyl:

Squilookle:

Xprimentyl:

Then what the hell are you even doing here? If you're not here to debate, why do you bother to engage at all? Surely you're not just doing it to quote yourself, as that would be too sad for words. But I'm genuinely curious as to what your end game here is- if there is indeed an end game here at all. What's the deal? What's your plan here?

I'm here because I have an Escapist account. Also here to share my perspective. I'm not here to change minds. I don't have a plan. I quoted myself because I made those things clear. That's what the hell I'm doing here.

OK, whatever you say, "wise old man" as you put it. Closed mind, closed book, and all that.

EvilRoy:
Well when you have one bad egg in an otherwise good group, you punish the group to enforce better behavior in the individual.

Uhhhhhh....No you don't. That's a stupid idea.

Every single time that happened in grade/high school, it NEVER produced that result.

The result was either

a) The entire class going "Oh my GOD the teacher is such a jerk dictator, they KNOW who the troublemaker was but they're punishing ALL of us, this is bullshit! Why do WE all have to write an apology essay when were were actually doing the class work?!" (IE, everyone blames the moderator instead of the actual guilty party)

b) The teacher going "I will punish you all until the one who did it admits they did it!" "It's dude over there!" "NO I WANT HIM TO ADMIT IT, besides I can't be sure that you're lying" (Guy basically lolnopes), cycle back to situation a) or now everyone is pissed because there's no way to get out of bieng unjustly punished.

c) "Hey Aegix, YOU say you did it!" "What, but I didn't do anything!" "Yeah but no one likes you anyway you little (expletive), so you should be useful for once and be the only one to be punished!" (Nobody disagrees, several of the assholes in class are nodding along)

The BEST scenario I saw was, after about 10 minutes of letting us stew in silence after yelling that "whoever did it and isn't admitting it is a chickenshit coward", the teacher finally came in and was like "Still no one is admitting it? Wow. STILL a chickenshit coward! Alright, I know it was one of YOU four jerks over there, you four come to the office", which was better than every other time. Still, it WAS the time that situation C happened to me, so it's a sour moment nonetheless.

Now look, I GET why this is a thing, it's supposed to cause social pressure to out the actual perpetrator...But it rarely ever works that way. If the one who did it is a bully/jerk/chronic troublemaker/popular kid, it doesn't change their attitude or everyone is too scared to pressure them. If it's an unpopular person or someone who isn't a strong personality, even if they admit they did it and get the group out of their punishment, the group will STILL hold it against them.

That and it promotes vigilante punishment by "the mob", especially in cases where it's an unpopular kid who causes the trouble, which isn't really a good thing. Worse still it can be weaponized in ways that hurt everyone BUT the guilty party.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

Elvis Starburst:
I just saw a stupid and silly thing happen that blew up in a massive way

Fair enough

Won't start another thread on this subject, but will share this one here as it's a lot easier to be sympathetic with the banned gamer.

TL;DW, Fallout 76 player who actively supported the F76 game and community who discovered an exploit, tested it to confirm its existence and reported it to Bethesda is banned for using said exploit. Oh, and they also refused to refund his premium subscription fee when most of the things that that fee supposedly paid for didn't work.

Cleary, this is different from FaZe who cheated briefly for entertainment content on his channel, but it's evidence of the kind of ham-fisted indifference that devs and publishers use in throwing around their weight. Many are of the mentally that "you cheat, you get banned; open and shut case," and I could get behind that, but it's obvious that integrity and righteousness aren't the motivation for their application of their "laws;" they're basically set to autopilot while they count the monies.

Xprimentyl:

TL;DW, Fallout 76 player who actively supported the F76 game and community who discovered an exploit, tested it to confirm its existence and reported it to Bethesda is banned for using said exploit. Oh, and they also refused to refund his premium subscription fee when most of the things that that fee supposedly paid for didn't work.

Cleary, this is different from FaZe who cheated briefly for entertainment content on his channel, but it's evidence of the kind of ham-fisted indifference that devs and publishers use in throwing around their weight. Many are of the mentally that "you cheat, you get banned; open and shut case," and I could get behind that, but it's obvious that integrity and righteousness aren't the motivation for their application of their "laws;" they're basically set to autopilot while they count the monies.

I'd argue this is vast amounts of different. Jarvis knowingly installed a cheat for the purpose of entertainment, took efforts to avoid punishment cause he knew how wrong it was, and then expected the money to roll in unhindered. Epic made an example out of him to show people that no matter how popular you are, you are not above the ToS, and I'd say that's perfectly reasonable given his status, influence, and placement on a Fortnite team.

This Fallout 76 player found an exploit by chance, tested and reported it for the purpose of supporting and benefiting the game and community, then Bethesda decided to be a dick, smite him, and rub salt in the wound with the refund refusal. That is Bethesda being rather unkind in more ways than one, and only tells everyone message that if you try and help and you do it in slightly the wrong way, then get fucked.

The context is miles apart. And considering how Bethesda has been acting as of late, I'd say they're probably seeking out bad PR at this point to try and keep the game from falling into obscurity

Chimpzy:

altnameJag:
I mean, major league athletes who knowingly cheat *also* lose access to their income stream, and most of them are smart enough to try and hide it. I'd expect lifetime bans from "here's me showing you how to cheat at high school sports" too.

You know how Jarvis is a member of FaZe, a pro esport team? I wonder how many of his fans who feel his punishment should be reduced because "it's just a game", also get butthurt when someone says esports aren't real sports. I mean, you want esport be taken seriously, you have to accept certain professional standards must be upheld. You can't expect to have it both ways.

Yep yep yep.
If Jarvis wanted to do this blatantly cheating thing, he should've gotten formal approval from the league. Might've even been a fun video, restricted to people who signed up to be in the match, etc.

But that would've required, I dunno, thought.

altnameJag:

Chimpzy:
snip

Yep yep yep.
If Jarvis wanted to do this blatantly cheating thing, he should've gotten formal approval from the league. Might've even been a fun video, restricted to people who signed up to be in the match, etc.

But that would've required, I dunno, thought.

True, but the decision would really be up to Epic. They are the ultimate arbitrators on all things Fortnite after all, tho I doubt they'd allow it. Maybe as a charity event, but even then. Zero tolerance policies generally come with an explicit "no exceptions" caveat.

Tho your point does stand, in that going through official channels first could've easily prevented the whole kerfuffle.

Elvis Starburst:

Xprimentyl:

TL;DW, Fallout 76 player who actively supported the F76 game and community who discovered an exploit, tested it to confirm its existence and reported it to Bethesda is banned for using said exploit. Oh, and they also refused to refund his premium subscription fee when most of the things that that fee supposedly paid for didn't work.

Cleary, this is different from FaZe who cheated briefly for entertainment content on his channel, but it's evidence of the kind of ham-fisted indifference that devs and publishers use in throwing around their weight. Many are of the mentally that "you cheat, you get banned; open and shut case," and I could get behind that, but it's obvious that integrity and righteousness aren't the motivation for their application of their "laws;" they're basically set to autopilot while they count the monies.

I'd argue this is vast amounts of different. Jarvis knowingly installed a cheat for the purpose of entertainment, took efforts to avoid punishment cause he knew how wrong it was, and then expected the money to roll in unhindered. Epic made an example out of him to show people that no matter how popular you are, you are not above the ToS, and I'd say that's perfectly reasonable given his status, influence, and placement on a Fortnite team.

This Fallout 76 player found an exploit by chance, tested and reported it for the purpose of supporting and benefiting the game and community, then Bethesda decided to be a dick, smite him, and rub salt in the wound with the refund refusal. That is Bethesda being rather unkind in more ways than one, and only tells everyone message that if you try and help and you do it in slightly the wrong way, then get fucked.

The context is miles apart. And considering how Bethesda has been acting as of late, I'd say they're probably seeking out bad PR at this point to try and keep the game from falling into obscurity

... I'm agreeing with you?

Xprimentyl:
Cleary, this is different from FaZe who cheated briefly for entertainment content on his channel,

Yup, not disputing anything you said. I'm aware that FaZe's motives were far more sinister (if we must absotively vilify him) than the guy who found and reported an exploit. I'm simply highlighting the point that this "zero tolerance" stance has little to nothing to do with integrity, ethics or active enforcment a code of conduct and is more an effortlessly easy out allowing devs and publishers to draw a bold "pass/fail" line and let law stand for itself and culpability lie with the community.

Does anyone else think that as videogaming has more and more become the realm of "live services," we should expect more from the devs and publishers who claim their side of the bargain is to support said live services? As a part of the "services" people pay for, is ACTUAL moderation too much to ask? I mean, what else have they got to do? Triple A titles have already devolved into bare-bones cash grabs as it stands; surly they can afford a team to be actively involved and assist in the policing of their communities? Or are we, paying customers, okay with a status quo that mandates psychopathic murderers, petty thugs and a good Samaritans all be executed for essentially the "same" crime because no one supporting the community can be arsed to vet the transgressions?

And I'm gonna call it now: since the gamer Bethesda banned will no longer support the free interactive map he created for Fallout 76, watch Bethesda create something similar for a FEE.

Xprimentyl:

... I'm agreeing with you?

Sorry, I might've mis-understood the second half of your post. I thought you were lumping them both together in the same line of awful, when Bethesda's example is a far worse example of abuse of power and their ToS. Maybe that is what you're getting at, in which case... it's too early for me to be posting and I'm confused.

Triple A titles have already devolved into bare-bones cash grabs as it stands; surly they can afford a team to be actively involved and assist in the policing of their communities?

That'd take effort and cost money, sooooo... nope

Elvis Starburst:

Xprimentyl:

... I'm agreeing with you?

Sorry, I might've mis-understood the second half of your post. I thought you were lumping them both together in the same line of awful, when Bethesda's example is a far worse example of abuse of power and their ToS. Maybe that is what you're getting at, in which case... it's too early for me to be posting and I'm confused.

You got it. Questioning why anyone would laud Epic for "doing the right thing" [in FaZe's case] when we basically accept that they didn't actually DO anything when you look at the state and course of the industry on the whole.

I still maintain I don't care one way or the other; I do not indulge in any of these live service games or those that expect recurring payments from me to enjoy them, so it doesn't affect me; it just kinda rings a little "Stockholm-y" when people pile on a fellow gamer for "getting what he deserved" when the slave master delivers a lethal beating for a reasonably minor infraction, i.e.: what Jarvis did was stupid, yes, but NOT malicious.

And yes, I understand the language in the ToS is clear on the matter of cheating; I get it. I just feel it should be broadened to allow for subjectivity and nuance by the multi-million and billion dollar companies who tactlessly pander for more and MOAR of our money while delivering less and less fulfilling experiences.

Elvis Starburst:

Triple A titles have already devolved into bare-bones cash grabs as it stands; surly they can afford a team to be actively involved and assist in the policing of their communities?

That'd take effort and cost money, sooooo... nope

Exactly, so I can't bring myself to assign any virtuousness to their enforcement of their laws.

So dumb, why would you cheat in multiplayer as a pro gamer we've seen what happens.

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