Any Western Made Action Games With Combat As Good As Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry or Bayonetta?

Title says it all. Are there any western made action games with good combat systems like DMC, Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta?

Closest thing that comes to mind is Furi, but even that is a bit of a hard comparison.

I love games like MGR and DMC, but I really can't think of any comparable Western ones.

Edit: Asked a friend, God of War 1's combat is pretty good. You won't find a lot of modern western games with in-depth close-combat systems, especially with most of them using some form of Arkham Combat.

The only ones that reach close to DMC, Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta are the mainline God of War games I-IV (II, III, & IV more so), and the DmC reboot(2013). And that barely counts, as while Ninja Theory did develop the combat, they had huge trouble as it was too slow during dev time. Hideaki Itsuno and his team had step in. And there's the Definitive Edition in 2015, other than promoting the game Ninja Theory did not fix the combat, remove annoying elements, add anything to the game play. The credit goes to Itsuno, his team, and QLOC (who did the PC port of DmC).

Dante's Inferno is just average and a complete copy of God of War II with only one weapon and a large move set. Marlow Briggs is more entertaining, but is on the jank side of things. It is a low budget game, but I would happily take it over DI. I also heard the Lords of Shadow games have great combat too; especially the 2nd game. Though LoS2 main problem is how it deals with crappy stealth, the open world not being all great, and backtracking that can be done better. The first game more linear and chapter based.

There was this ps3 game based on journey to the west that was kinda like this, not nearly as deep as the japanese games though.

Oh yeah, Journey to the West, that game has similar combat and its pretty awesome.

Out of interest, what did you like about Bayonetta's combat? Wasn't fussed on that myself.

Thaluikhain:
Out of interest, what did you like about Bayonetta's combat? Wasn't fussed on that myself.

The complex combo strings and Witch Time.

Thaluikhain:
Out of interest, what did you like about Bayonetta's combat? Wasn't fussed on that myself.

That game has probably the deepest system out of them all but you have to delve into it almost like you're playing a fighting game cause it's pretty deep, it's also really flashy and out there too, it has the most imaginative style of attacks.

The God of Wars are like baby's first hack and slash. If you're looking for something on par or close to on par with those top tier action games, you just aren't going to find any made by western studios. There's some really solid action games made in the west but nothing that has depth that the aforementioned titles. Horizon Zero Dawn has great combat, it's not super deep, but it's real smooth giving quite a few options to the player. Outside of Dragon's Dogma, Kingdoms of Amalur has the best RPG combat out there. Heavenly Sword is like God of War but better, the combat is interesting and stance-based but again, no Bayonetta. The only games that are, in a sense, possibly on par with those Japanese action games is probably the Dishonored series, the ridiculous shit you can do in those games takes both extreme creativity by the player and extreme execution. Just Youtube search Dishonored + StealthGamerBR.

Dreiko:
There was this ps3 game based on journey to the west that was kinda like this, not nearly as deep as the japanese games though.

Worgen:
Oh yeah, Journey to the West, that game has similar combat and its pretty awesome.

Ninja Theory's Heavenly Sword is a far better combat game than their Journey to the West, which is an action-adventure game that focus isn't really on its combat system.

Phoenixmgs:
The God of Wars are like baby's first hack and slash.

Nope, that title goes to DmC (2013). At least the God of War games were actually challenging on the default difficulty. I say this, and I was not that in to God of War aside from the first two[1], and the fourth mainline entry. When you have things like color coded enemies (lazy palette swaps) that can only be killed by specific weapons. We're getting in to Simon says territory. Use red weapon to kill red enemy, or use blue/white weapon to kill blue enemy. It limits the combat potential and forces the player to play in a stricter, not as expressive way. This was fixed in the PC version (by fan mods) & by Itsuno and his team in the DE version. Which most of the ideas they took from fans anyway.

Phoenixmgs:
Ninja Theory's Heavenly Sword is a far better combat game than their Journey to the West, which is an action-adventure game that focus isn't really on its combat system.

True, but Journey to the West had a better story. It's kinda hard to care in HS when the opening more or less makes what happened a forgone conclusion. If we're talking Ninja Theory's gameplay in action games it's: DmC (2013)> Heavenly Sword > Hellblade > JothW. DmC more or less uses a more "advanced" version of HS's stance system. Right down to the trigger button changing stances. Yet the stance systems in DMC3-5 [2], Transformers: Devastation (vehicle mode) blows any of Ninja Theory's stances out of the water.

[1] Even then I'm stretching it with II at least. The only reason I played it was because I went over to a friend of my brother's.
[2] Balrog has a punch and kick mode, while King Cerberus has ice, fire, and lightning stances

Western devs don't really DO complex melee combat systems. Best I can think of is God of War, which others have already mentioned but isn't nearly as good as something like DMC, or fighting games like War of the Monsters.

Phoenixmgs:
The God of Wars are like baby's first hack and slash. If you're looking for something on par or close to on par with those top tier action games, you just aren't going to find any made by western studios. There's some really solid action games made in the west but nothing that has depth that the aforementioned titles. Horizon Zero Dawn has great combat, it's not super deep, but it's real smooth giving quite a few options to the player. Outside of Dragon's Dogma, Kingdoms of Amalur has the best RPG combat out there. Heavenly Sword is like God of War but better, the combat is interesting and stance-based but again, no Bayonetta. The only games that are, in a sense, possibly on par with those Japanese action games is probably the Dishonored series, the ridiculous shit you can do in those games takes both extreme creativity by the player and extreme execution. Just Youtube search Dishonored + StealthGamerBR.

.

OP mentions combat similar to Bayonetta, DMC and Ninja Gaiden, and your answer is Horizon: Zero Dawn over God of War? Neither is really in the same ballpark but H:ZD is literally void of strategy, especially against humanoids. It's literally just spamming the powerful spear attack. The only thing that makes the combat great is the different ranged weapons and traps which share more in common with Monster Hunter or even The Evil Within than hack n slash.

Yes, God of War (the first one). After launch, every action game tried to copy the combat style.

CoCage:

Phoenixmgs:
The God of Wars are like baby's first hack and slash.

Nope, that title goes to DmC (2013). At least the God of War games were actually challenging on the default difficulty. I say this, and I was not that in to God of War aside from the first two[1], and the fourth mainline entry. When you have things like color coded enemies (lazy palette swaps) that can only be killed by specific weapons. We're getting in to Simon says territory. Use red weapon to kill red enemy, or use blue/white weapon to kill blue enemy. It limits the combat potential and forces the player to play in a stricter, not as expressive way. This was fixed in the PC version (by fan mods) & by Itsuno and his team in the DE version. Which most of the ideas they took from fans anyway.

Phoenixmgs:
Ninja Theory's Heavenly Sword is a far better combat game than their Journey to the West, which is an action-adventure game that focus isn't really on its combat system.

True, but Journey to the West had a better story. It's kinda hard to care in HS when the opening more or less makes what happened a forgone conclusion. If we're talking Ninja Theory's gameplay in action games it's: DmC (2013)> Heavenly Sword > Hellblade > JothW. DmC more or less uses a more "advanced" version of HS's stance system. Right down to the trigger button changing stances. Yet the stance systems in DMC3-5 [2], Transformers: Devastation (vehicle mode) blows any of Ninja Theory's stances out of the water.

Huh? Square>Square>Triangle beats everything in GOW, even the highest difficulty. The only hard fight is the clone battle at the end. DmC is probably better than Heavenly Sword in combat, I only played the demo for DmC. Heavenly Sword is way better than GOW though. I did enjoy HS more then JttW, I felt the opening of HS worked as it was the "how/journey" that works vs knowing that it happened.

hanselthecaretaker:
OP mentions combat similar to Bayonetta, DMC and Ninja Gaiden, and your answer is Horizon: Zero Dawn over God of War? Neither is really in the same ballpark but H:ZD is literally void of strategy, especially against humanoids. It?s literally just spamming the powerful spear attack. The only thing that makes the combat great is the different ranged weapons and traps which share more in common with Monster Hunter or even The Evil Within than hack n slash.

I was mentioning the best western combat systems as there's nothing that compares to DMC, Bayo, etc. I mentioned Dishonored because that just might scratch the itch of player creativity and technical execution that the aforementioned games require at the highest levels even though it's very far from a spectacle fighter. Horizon does have better combat than GOW IMO, the combat system has just the right properties to it that you can literally choreograph your fights (with robo-dinos, not humans) and then execute your plan (which I did myself in Horizon) while Monster Hunter actually lacks those properties (as its status effect buildup is invisible to the player while Horizon is not). Again, Horizon scratches some of DMC/Bayo's itches, obviously not all of them. If you just wanna juggle enemies (albeit greatly watered down), GOW has that but that's really it.

[1] Even then I'm stretching it with II at least. The only reason I played it was because I went over to a friend of my brother's.
[2] Balrog has a punch and kick mode, while King Cerberus has ice, fire, and lightning stances

Phoenixmgs:

Huh? Square>Square>Triangle beats everything in GOW, even the highest difficulty. The only hard fight is the clone battle at the end. DmC is probably better than Heavenly Sword in combat, I only played the demo for DmC. Heavenly Sword is way better than GOW though. I did enjoy HS more then JttW, I felt the opening of HS worked as it was the "how/journey" that works vs knowing that it happened.

The Square>Square>Triangle really only works on I & II, and sometimes III. Good luck trying to pull that off in IV. God of War as a whole or individually is still harder than vanilla DmC. Two words: "Devil Trigger".


More broken than two squares and a triangle. These are bosses on Dante Must Die Mode! Jump cancelling is super busted, and Aquila's Triangle (Y), Triangle(Y), (pause) Triangle (Y) makes Krato's bread and butter combo looks like it takes maximum effort and skill by comparison.

CaitSeith:
Yes, God of War (the first one). After launch, every action game tried to copy the combat style.

Before that, it was DMC clones, and then God of War happened. The first game in response to DMC, but make it more brutal and edgy. At least the modern interpretation to Greek mythos up to that point. Before, that most modern media either made Greek mythology either lighter and softer, kiddiefied it, or out removed the more messed up stories in the myths.

Ahhh, the mid to late 2000s. Where every action game was either influenced in some way, or directly copying GoW. Whether it was the East or West. The characters were either sociopathic villains or anti-heroes in name only. In fact, here's a list of games:

EDIT: Added Ninja Blade & Sonic Unleashed

Bayonetta - Action commands and QTEs to a frustrating degree, Thankfully, the 2nd game had done away with insta-death QTEs.

Devil May Cry 4 - Partially with Nero's Devil Bringer and more brutal fighting style compared to Dante. Plus, his right arm is a gap closer very similar to Kratos.

DmC - Angel Lift and Demon Pull. Press L3+R3 for DT as the default.

Metal Gear Rising - Press L3+R3 for Ripper mode.

Ninja Blade - Copies the big three at the time.

Sonic Unleashed - God of War combat in a fucking Sonic game of all places!

No More Heroes

Mad World

Wolverine (360/PS3)

Asura's Wrath - Especially the early footage before changing lead developers and Keji Inafune left Capcom.

Conan (360/PS3)

Darksiders I & II

Deadpool

Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z - God of War with zombies and cel-shading.

Ninja Gaiden 3 - The dark and edgy tone, and trying to "Westernize" a Japanese game. See Yaiba.

Onechanbara Z: Kagura & Z2: Chaos

WET - Fuck this game, and fuck Rubi!

Lollipop Chainsaw

Killer Is Dead.

CoCage:

Phoenixmgs:
Huh? Square>Square>Triangle beats everything in GOW, even the highest difficulty. The only hard fight is the clone battle at the end. DmC is probably better than Heavenly Sword in combat, I only played the demo for DmC. Heavenly Sword is way better than GOW though. I did enjoy HS more then JttW, I felt the opening of HS worked as it was the "how/journey" that works vs knowing that it happened.

The Square>Square>Triangle really only works on I & II, and sometimes III. Good luck trying to pull that off in IV. God of War as a whole or individually is still harder than vanilla DmC. Two words: "Devil Trigger".

More broken than two squares and a triangle. These are bosses on Dante Must Die Mode! Jump cancelling is super busted, and Aquila's Triangle (Y), Triangle(Y), (pause) Triangle (Y) makes Krato's bread and butter combo looks like it takes maximum effort and skill by comparison.

Like I said, I really haven't played DmC, it seemed like a more advanced HS and it better/should have had a better combat system just due to it being part of the DMC franchise. I was obviously talking about classic GOW with square>square>triangle. Oh, and my mistake, that basic combo does beat the clone fight too (on God mode). Nu-GOW isn't very good, it does all the little things so poorly with stuff like Kratos and enemies literally skating across the environment (aka Move Assist) to land hits (@ 10:40 on linked video). Santa Monica is only good at graphical feats, they suck at making well executed game systems (as nu-GOW had the potential to be great) and that their only good game was the game Jaffe directed. And there's bunch of cheap shit you can do as I totally wasn't coming back to areas because I was underleveled (that shit doesn't belong in a hack and slash / spectacle fighter) and I easily found cheap shit to kill high leveled enemies like shooting enemies as they jumped platforms to insta-kill them.

Phoenixmgs:

Like I said, I really haven't played DmC, it seemed like a more advanced HS and it better/should have had a better combat system just due to it being part of the DMC franchise. I was obviously talking about classic GOW with square>square>triangle. Oh, and my mistake, that basic combo does beat the clone fight too (on God mode). Nu-GOW isn't very good, it does all the little things so poorly with stuff like Kratos and enemies literally skating across the environment (aka Move Assist) to land hits (@ 10:40 on linked video). Santa Monica is only good at graphical feats, they suck at making well executed game systems (as nu-GOW had the potential to be great) and that their only good game was the game Jaffe directed. And there's bunch of cheap shit you can do as I totally wasn't coming back to areas because I was underleveled (that shit doesn't belong in a hack and slash / spectacle fighter) and I easily found cheap shit to kill high leveled enemies like shooting enemies as they jumped platforms to insta-kill them.

The key words are should have more advanced combat, but that depends on what games you comparing to DmC. If it's to most Western action games, DMC2 Ninja Gaiden 3, yes. DmC is superior to them. But to classic God of War, not really. Unless you're talking about the Definitive Edition, but that's unfair as DE is a fix it game. I will admit this: DmC has the best pacing compared to any God of War games. DmC's combat falters to all of the other DMCs except two. And definitely falters compared to most of the Platinum's action games. I am already aware of God of War IV's faults with enemy sliding/skating. A problem, but nowhere near as a problem with Ninja Gaiden II's glitchy mess, and highly cheap enemies. At least GoW IV gives you a chance. The combat is not perfect and can use improvements, but it's satisfying to attack, land a parry, or even perform witch time if you have the proper amulet equipped. Check out combo videos from SmvR on YouTube. This person has done combo videos I never thought possible.

I remember trying to play through the early GoW's just using SST, and while it's generally the main bnb and easy to abuse, it's not always reliable by any means. There are some heavy enemies that need a heavy attack first (Square just bounces off) or even parry to open up for damage. Other like the Satyrs I think can poise through the first couple Square hits and knock you out of it, meaning you have to at least start it from safe distance or only land the last hit. Then of course there are specific enemies like harpies and those Sirens or whatever ones tunnel under the ground where your best attack is to grab them, and set them up for juggles.

Basically, yeah the SST meme has its place for good reason, but its overall effectiveness to carry people through the games is pretty exaggerated, especially on any difficulty above Normal. Even Jaffe said how Bayonetta blows the doors off God of War's combat, but the games were never designed to mirror that anyways. They were always about other aspects like story, spectacle, puzzles, platforming, etc.

Never understood the incessant need for direct comparison of these very different games.

hanselthecaretaker:

Never understood the incessant need for direct comparison of these very different games.

Because God of War took elements from Devil May Cry. Not the first to do so, but one of the most popular for a reason. The other reason is because certain gamers and "critics" (YouTube or otherwise) want to boast their "Street Cred" and say how X games is better than Y, cuz Z. Or brag about how this game is more challenging than the other game's difficulty. People are always going to compare and contrast, for better or worse. The matter is how each person handles the situation. Some of its critical thought, other times it boils down to elitist bullshit.

CoCage:
At least GoW IV gives you a chance. The combat is not perfect and can use improvements, but it's satisfying to attack, land a parry, or even perform witch time if you have the proper amulet equipped. Check out combo videos from SmvR on YouTube. This person has done combo videos I never thought possible.

I know you can do some interesting stuff with the combat system but all the little things just make me not want to play it; I just played to finish it about halfway through. Like Homer quitting his dream job with Hank Scorpio over the little things and Hank replies, "Can't argue with the little things, it's the little things that make up life." The game just has no consistency; I don't know where I (or the enemy) will end up after attacks, I don't know if I'll stagger the enemy or not with XYZ attack, etc. Whereas I know exactly what happens when I do XYZ in Bayo or even Horizon Zero Dawn.

hanselthecaretaker:
Even Jaffe said how Bayonetta blows the doors off God of War?s combat, but the games were never designed to mirror that anyways. They were always about other aspects like story, spectacle, puzzles, platforming, etc.

Agree, that's why I've said numerous times GOW can't be carried by it's combat like other games, it has to be firing on all cylinders (story, spectacle, puzzles, platforming, etc.) to be a good game. GOW1 was the only one that did IMO.

CoCage:

hanselthecaretaker:

Never understood the incessant need for direct comparison of these very different games.

Because God of War took elements from Devil May Cry. Not the first to do so, but one of the most popular for a reason. The other reason is because certain gamers and "critics" (YouTube or otherwise) want to boast their "Street Cred" and say how X games is better than Y, cuz Z. Or brag about how this game is more challenging than the other game's difficulty. People are always going to compare and contrast, for better or worse. The matter is how each person handles the situation. Some of its critical thought, other times it boils down to elitist bullshit.

I never got why DMC and GOW were compared, I remember ridiculous GFaqs fights about them back in the day. To me, GOW's combat is far more similar to being fleshed out Prince of Persia combat than DMC.

Phoenixmgs:

CoCage:
At least GoW IV gives you a chance. The combat is not perfect and can use improvements, but it's satisfying to attack, land a parry, or even perform witch time if you have the proper amulet equipped. Check out combo videos from SmvR on YouTube. This person has done combo videos I never thought possible.

I know you can do some interesting stuff with the combat system but all the little things just make me not want to play it; I just played to finish it about halfway through. Like Homer quitting his dream job with Hank Scorpio over the little things and Hank replies, "Can't argue with the little things, it's the little things that make up life." The game just has no consistency; I don't know where I (or the enemy) will end up after attacks, I don't know if I'll stagger the enemy or not with XYZ attack, etc. Whereas I know exactly what happens when I do XYZ in Bayo or even Horizon Zero Dawn.

hanselthecaretaker:
Even Jaffe said how Bayonetta blows the doors off God of War?s combat, but the games were never designed to mirror that anyways. They were always about other aspects like story, spectacle, puzzles, platforming, etc.

Agree, that's why I've said numerous times GOW can't be carried by it's combat like other games, it has to be firing on all cylinders (story, spectacle, puzzles, platforming, etc.) to be a good game. GOW1 was the only one that did IMO.

The first had the most interesting story before it kinda went increasingly off the deep end of revenge fuel. But really, very few games had such a roller coaster flow of rhythm between set pieces, popcorn combat, platforming and puzzles. Sometimes one would roll into the next rather brilliantly. None of it required exceptional gaming skills unless you house-ruled some things, but it was still probably the height of old school design philosophy for linear, scripted games, where even Uncharted 2 fell short because it had to be somewhat more grounded.

Plus, the camera work was an art form in itself, especially the PS3 games. Some of that is detailed in this making of towards the bottom of the page and continuing onto the next. Then GoW 2018 outdid that. Yes the combat has some technical design flaws but that probably boils more down to the execution of surrounding systems than anything. The axe is one of the most versatile, tactile and visceral feeling weapons in all of gaming to date.

Having said that it would be great if they fine tune the combat mechanics and trim out some of the leveling fluff for the sequel. Like Geralt being a master witcher, Kratos is already a powerful demi-god so let him find new abilities and gear more naturally and organically through the core gameplay.

hanselthecaretaker:

The first had the most interesting story before it kinda went increasingly off the deep end of revenge fuel. But really, very few games had such a roller coaster flow of rhythm between set pieces, popcorn combat, platforming and puzzles. Sometimes one would roll into the next rather brilliantly. None of it required exceptional gaming skills unless you house-ruled some things, but it was still probably the height of old school design philosophy for linear, scripted games, where even Uncharted 2 fell short because it had to be somewhat more grounded.

More or less why I stopped caring after II and bits of III. Kratos was just whiny bitch and a self-parody. Plus, the pacing in II & III were really bad; especially III.

hanselthecaretaker:

Yes the combat has some technical design flaws but that probably boils more down to the execution of surrounding systems than anything. The axe is one of the most versatile, tactile and visceral feeling weapons in all of gaming to date.

Having said that it would be great if they fine tune the combat mechanics and trim out some of the leveling fluff for the sequel. Like Geralt being a master witcher, Kratos is already a powerful demi-god so let him find new abilities and gear more naturally and organically through the core gameplay.

Good news! The combat designer for God of War is working on the combat for the Avengers game. It's really noticeable with Thor's combat. Whatever fine tunes he does there, will carry over to God of War V.

CoCage:

hanselthecaretaker:

The first had the most interesting story before it kinda went increasingly off the deep end of revenge fuel. But really, very few games had such a roller coaster flow of rhythm between set pieces, popcorn combat, platforming and puzzles. Sometimes one would roll into the next rather brilliantly. None of it required exceptional gaming skills unless you house-ruled some things, but it was still probably the height of old school design philosophy for linear, scripted games, where even Uncharted 2 fell short because it had to be somewhat more grounded.

More or less why I stopped caring after II and bits of III. Kratos was just whiny bitch and a self-parody. Plus, the pacing in II & III were really bad; especially III.

hanselthecaretaker:

Yes the combat has some technical design flaws but that probably boils more down to the execution of surrounding systems than anything. The axe is one of the most versatile, tactile and visceral feeling weapons in all of gaming to date.

Having said that it would be great if they fine tune the combat mechanics and trim out some of the leveling fluff for the sequel. Like Geralt being a master witcher, Kratos is already a powerful demi-god so let him find new abilities and gear more naturally and organically through the core gameplay.

Good news! The combat designer for God of War is working on the combat for the Avengers game. It's really noticeable with Thor's combat. Whatever fine tunes he does there, will carry over to God of War V.

That sounds like a tall task. I wonder who's doing the GoW sequel then? I doubt he'd be leading on both games simultaneously.

hanselthecaretaker:

CoCage:

hanselthecaretaker:

The first had the most interesting story before it kinda went increasingly off the deep end of revenge fuel. But really, very few games had such a roller coaster flow of rhythm between set pieces, popcorn combat, platforming and puzzles. Sometimes one would roll into the next rather brilliantly. None of it required exceptional gaming skills unless you house-ruled some things, but it was still probably the height of old school design philosophy for linear, scripted games, where even Uncharted 2 fell short because it had to be somewhat more grounded.

More or less why I stopped caring after II and bits of III. Kratos was just whiny bitch and a self-parody. Plus, the pacing in II & III were really bad; especially III.

hanselthecaretaker:

Yes the combat has some technical design flaws but that probably boils more down to the execution of surrounding systems than anything. The axe is one of the most versatile, tactile and visceral feeling weapons in all of gaming to date.

Having said that it would be great if they fine tune the combat mechanics and trim out some of the leveling fluff for the sequel. Like Geralt being a master witcher, Kratos is already a powerful demi-god so let him find new abilities and gear more naturally and organically through the core gameplay.

Good news! The combat designer for God of War is working on the combat for the Avengers game. It's really noticeable with Thor's combat. Whatever fine tunes he does there, will carry over to God of War V.

That sounds like a tall task. I wonder who?s doing the GoW sequel then? I doubt he?d be leading on both games simultaneously.

Oh, I wouldn't worry too much. Considering the game comes out this year and a few months, they'll probably have him back before pre-production. Worst case scenario, he can be a consultant for whoever is doing the combat design for God of War V. They already have a blueprint to work off of, so won't be too difficult.

 

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