2020 is delayed

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

Dalisclock:
Tis fair.

I'm kinda surprised you didn't mention how your attempts to get trico to move could be irritating, since that's one of the chief complaints and somewhat warranted as well(On one hand, Trico is a semi-feral monster and not a dog. OTOH, sometimes he decides to go in the exact opposite direction you've requested of him...over and over again).

This is honestly the least of the game's problems. If you know the specific sound Trico makes once a command has been received it's easy to distinguish when you're giving the right commmand and when you giving the wrong one. And also to not spam commands.

Phoenixmgs:
I don't really get the control or camera issues at all. All you have to do in the game is run around, jump, and climb and the controls never failed me or caused me to die. Sure, the whole climbing on big creatures is wonky at times but no dev has perfected that and you're never under time constraints when doing it. Compare that to the massive issues Uncharted's controls have that were never fixed in the entire series that fail you at critical moments constantly. The camera also never bugs out while you're running around actually doing stuff. Sure, it freaks out when your on Trico and you're going through tunnels/doorways or jumping around the environment. But that's just stuff that makes the game feel unpolished vs an actual playability issue. I would've preferred the narration not be there, but it doesn't ruin any of the reveals at the end. It only reveals that the boy doesn't die obviously and is probably there to make players think...

Except Shadow of the Colossus had an ideal climbing mechanic that they could have moved wholesale to TLG, minus the stamina gage. In SotC the climbing feels organic; You need to hold a button in order to actually hold on, you weren't magnetized to a colossus' fur. This gave you a level of control over your climbing no other game has ever surpassed. In TLG you have to sluggishly traipse yourself across Trico, because the game locks you onto him as if you're covered in velcro. This makes it so that climbing Trico always feels like a chore, where you're constantly hammering the X button to try and detach yourself from him, because you can't simply let go or jump off him without the annoyance of the kid auto-locking back onto him.

The game also suffers from massive input lag, sometimes with buttons not responding initially when your on Trico. Petting Trico almost always requires a second press of the O button, because pressing and holding it once will often just not do anything. And then there's the giant button prompts which show up for every interaction with a switch, a barrel, a spear, anything, which you can't disable in the options. The controls never become organic or "invisible". And the camera is headache inducing, and not just when you're on Trico. The camera just moves awkwardly and slow. It's like you're playing a Souls game, but the camera is resting on a waterbed. And the combination of the kid's jerky-ass movement and the auto-stop near edges makes for some incredibly clucky maneuvering in tight spots, like high walkways, wooden beams, broken staircases.

Then there's the moments where the game makes you wait for shit to happen, like when you're trapped in the rolling cage or you're hanging from the branch by your collar. Or in the final sequence where it's supposed to be really exciting as you're (auto-)hanging onto another Trico flying around, but the whole sequence is entirely scripted with zero danger, and it goes on for way too long.

And speaking of that spoiler, the game pulls that way too many times as well. Like, how many times does that almost happen? Four times? And each time the game seems to milk it for all it's worth. 'Oh no, now it might REALLY bu true!' Yeah right.

I wanted to add into this conversation that I don't mind delays in general. However I would say that the FF7 delay of a few weeks makes very little sense in my mind. Considering the epic level of marketing (my local game store still has 3.3.20 posters everywhere) and how small of a delay it is, just doesn't make much sense. Especially considering how far ahead of release they need to put the game onto discs and ship them all over the world so that the game in available in stores on or before release day. How much more could they put into the game or whatever that couldn't be impliemented into a Day 1 patch by the time the game came out at normal time? I don't really know.

Cyberpunk and Avengers makes a lot more sense. Especially Avengers because that game didn't look all that close to completion when they last showed gameplay for it. These month long delays offer plenty of development time to finish up the game and get it to a state in which the company is happy with it for release.

Not that I want FF7 delayed any longer, I'm just saying.

Aiddon:

Yeah let those employees suffer for no reason! You show them. Punish them and yourself!

Take your stance if you want, but you punish yourself out of a game you might really love and you throw away all that hardwork (justified or not) from those employees away.

Or, y'know, we can properly attribute blame to incompetent publishers instead of trying to guilt people into buying something.[/quote]

Except CDPR is both developer and publisher here so that doesn't make sense.

Look crunch is a thing in the real world. Surprise surprise but the world isn't perfect and isn't made of candy cane and rainbows. People have to work to make their careers, sometimes they have to work a lot, and is it healthy? No it isn't but the alternative is not having a job or a stable life. Business doesn't care about your health, and very few companies in the world have a no-overtime policy.

Starting lawyers work incredible hours to win cases, business men work weekends and late into the date on business trips and meets all over the world. Overtime is a part of work life, and since I've worked in the game's industry myself many moons ago, I know for a fact it isn't all the time. On any game project, your development cycle is anywhere from 3-5 years from greenlight to release. During this time overtime only becomes a factor near release date, usually the last 3-4 months of a project in which developers work 12hr shifts. Sometimes this period is less and sometimes it's longer, but it's overall a very small portion of the project in the long run.

These crunch periods always make the news and they are never painted by the whole picture. Yes there is a lot of overtime for relatively small periods of time, then it all goes back to normal when people are moved to different projects. Only rare exceptional disasters of developments are littered with constant overtime crunches, and those are usually projects that get shit canned really quick, or become Anthem.

The point is overtime is a part of life. It isn't great, but it's just how business works. It's fine to punch a clock exactly at 5pm when you work a shithole job like fast food or something. But when you are in business, when you are in a career, you almost never get to bolt out the door the moment your "shift" is over.

So when people take the stance of "I wont buy this game because they were forced to crunch to finish it" You basically are saying, "Fuck your hard work and long hours." Frankly it isn't even a smart stance because that means you can't ever buy any video game ever made. Because every game has overtime, from developers to testers, you are always forced to do overtime. It wont change, you aren't going to stop it.

Also think about the stories you don't hear about. You think Ed McMullin isn't putting a shitload of hours into Super Meat Boy? Or Toby Fox busting his ass for Undertale? Just because you don't hear about it being forced by a publisher, you don't think these solo developers aren't doing it too? Hell the solo or small team indie folks are probably working even harder and longer than any AAA crunch period. Yet you dont hear about it why? Because there isn't some faceless company to get mad at about it. That's all it is.

Ya'll wanna tell me none of you have never been forced into overtime? Or forced to work extra shifts?

I don't get crunch. I mean, Cyberpunk was teased in like 2012 or 2013. Then years go by when we hear nothing of the game. Then out of the blue a seemingly arbitrary release date is picked. People get hyped for that release date, but sorry release date gets delayed and developers need to spend months on end in the offices. Why? Announce the game later. Announce the release date later. Choose a large time window. If they announced the release date at this year's E3 for beginning of 2021 look how happy people would be if they were able to *gasp* release the game earlier.

Like I said, if people wait since the early years of last decade for this game it's not like a few more months will make a difference. Unless you get them excited over nothing. This whole crunch thing is just bullshit and a totally unnecessary problem of their own making.

CritialGaming:

Except CDPR is both developer and publisher here so that doesn't make sense.

Look crunch is a thing in the real world. Surprise surprise but the world isn't perfect and isn't made of candy cane and rainbows. People have to work to make their careers, sometimes they have to work a lot, and is it healthy? No it isn't but the alternative is not having a job or a stable life. Business doesn't care about your health, and very few companies in the world have a no-overtime policy.

Starting lawyers work incredible hours to win cases, business men work weekends and late into the date on business trips and meets all over the world. Overtime is a part of work life, and since I've worked in the game's industry myself many moons ago, I know for a fact it isn't all the time. On any game project, your development cycle is anywhere from 3-5 years from greenlight to release. During this time overtime only becomes a factor near release date, usually the last 3-4 months of a project in which developers work 12hr shifts. Sometimes this period is less and sometimes it's longer, but it's overall a very small portion of the project in the long run.

These crunch periods always make the news and they are never painted by the whole picture. Yes there is a lot of overtime for relatively small periods of time, then it all goes back to normal when people are moved to different projects. Only rare exceptional disasters of developments are littered with constant overtime crunches, and those are usually projects that get shit canned really quick, or become Anthem.

The point is overtime is a part of life. It isn't great, but it's just how business works. It's fine to punch a clock exactly at 5pm when you work a shithole job like fast food or something. But when you are in business, when you are in a career, you almost never get to bolt out the door the moment your "shift" is over.

So when people take the stance of "I wont buy this game because they were forced to crunch to finish it" You basically are saying, "Fuck your hard work and long hours." Frankly it isn't even a smart stance because that means you can't ever buy any video game ever made. Because every game has overtime, from developers to testers, you are always forced to do overtime. It wont change, you aren't going to stop it.

Also think about the stories you don't hear about. You think Ed McMullin isn't putting a shitload of hours into Super Meat Boy? Or Toby Fox busting his ass for Undertale? Just because you don't hear about it being forced by a publisher, you don't think these solo developers aren't doing it too? Hell the solo or small team indie folks are probably working even harder and longer than any AAA crunch period. Yet you dont hear about it why? Because there isn't some faceless company to get mad at about it. That's all it is.

Ya'll wanna tell me none of you have never been forced into overtime? Or forced to work extra shifts?

Crunch is bullshit. If you can't see that, it's your problem. Overtime is one thing, but working your employees to death or insanity is another. Especially when the big suits, don't suffer and reap everything from those that put in the effort. And then the publishers go boasting about it like it's some lifetime achievement to drive your workers to death. If you want to buy the game, no one is stopping you. Your little speech is nothing more than a pathetic "That's life. Somethings you can't change." You're part of the problem. Me buying their game, ain't gonna stop their bullshit. If you cannot see that, then we have nothing left to discuss.

Satinavian:
Yes.

The expansions of both Stellaris and Europa Universalis 4 are late as well.

I'm ok with Federations being delayed, if it means the first release doesn't require half a dozen hotfixes post release, because it broke multiple subsystems in new and interesting ways.

I am quite disappointed that they are delaying Cyberpunk 2077 AND introducing crunch, but more than that, it perplexes me. Fans that are going to be upset by this delay would be upset by any delay. Fans who are fine with this delay, most likely, would be fine with any delay.

So, if you are going to delay the game until September...why not delay it until November or December, and then NOT overwork your coders to the breaking point? I know that a lot of publishers and developers (HI, BIOWARE) seem to feel that crunch is a given to get a game out on time, but when the game is not coming out on time...why are we still getting crunch?

CritialGaming:
Ya'll wanna tell me none of you have never been forced into overtime? Or forced to work extra shifts?

Yeah, but the cause of overtime is almost always poor management that caused it. My prior job was a shitshow of that, they didn't have enough workers to do the work, then they hired temps (to save money on benefits) that didn't give the same quality work as actual hires. The overtime then causes your better workers to leave for better jobs causing turnover and wasted hours training new people constantly. If they simply hired employees, paid and treated them well, their precious production would be up along with revenues and profits.

Witcher 3 had tons of systems/things it didn't need to begin with, a properly managed project would've got the game out sooner without needing a single hour of overtime. I'm pretty damn sure the same will be true of Cyberpunk as well.

CoCage:
Crunch is bullshit. If you can't see that, it's your problem. Overtime is one thing, but working your employees to death or insanity is another. Especially when the big suits, don't suffer and reap everything from those that put in the effort. And then the publishers go boasting about it like it's some lifetime achievement to drive your workers to death. If you want to buy the game, no one is stopping you. Your little speech is nothing more than a pathetic "That's life. Somethings you can't change." You're part of the problem. Me buying their game, ain't gonna stop their bullshit. If you cannot see that, then we have nothing left to discuss.

Agree 1,000%

thebobmaster:
I am quite disappointed that they are delaying Cyberpunk 2077 AND introducing crunch, but more than that, it perplexes me. Fans that are going to be upset by this delay would be upset by any delay. Fans who are fine with this delay, most likely, would be fine with any delay.

So, if you are going to delay the game until September...why not delay it until November or December, and then NOT overwork your coders to the breaking point? I know that a lot of publishers and developers (HI, BIOWARE) seem to feel that crunch is a given to get a game out on time, but when the game is not coming out on time...why are we still getting crunch?

Totally agree. Cyberpunk is definitely one of the games that can be released literally whenever and sell like hot cakes. There's no reason to push for some specific release window (unless the company literally needs the sales money to survive, which I doubt CDPR is in that situation).

Another one.

Dying Light 2 has been delayed for an unknown amount of time. Techland is on the verge of becoming vaperware at this point I think. I mean how long ago was Dying Light 2 even announced? I can't even remember, but it feels like ages.

CritialGaming:
-snip-

Saying "but everyone has done it!" is not an argument. Regardless of ANY industry, crunch is bullshit. It has never been proven to help anything. Competent leaders know that, incompetent leaders don't. Crunch is what it has always been: a sign of poor management and leadership.

This is why I say what has always been said: Fucking. Unionize.

CritialGaming:
Also think about the stories you don't hear about. You think Ed McMullin isn't putting a shitload of hours into Super Meat Boy? Or Toby Fox busting his ass for Undertale? Just because you don't hear about it being forced by a publisher, you don't think these solo developers aren't doing it too? Hell the solo or small team indie folks are probably working even harder and longer than any AAA crunch period. Yet you dont hear about it why? Because there isn't some faceless company to get mad at about it. That's all it is.

Weren't those independently developed games? It's completely different to decide on your own to work long, dangerous hours on a project you do everything yourself on, than to work for a company and be forced to work those long, dangerous hours or be terminated. It seems kinda bogus to just exclude that aspect out. Everything else is just "things suck, so deal with it", which is just... a bad argument.

Granblue Fantasy Versus, UNIELCR and Persona 5 Royal are all still coming out during their announced timing and that timing is within weeks/a month tops away from these delayed gammes. If anything, it's a blessing to not also have FFVII and Cyberpunk coming out right in the same month as p5r cause there'd be no way to find enough time to play everything and if you make me pick between them I'm going for persona every time while grinding out my fighting games online and at locals and putting ff and cyberpunk on the backburner if not outright ignoring them for a few months.

In fact, I can easily see at least FFVII dodging its initial release to avoid competing with p5r.

thebobmaster:
I am quite disappointed that they are delaying Cyberpunk 2077 AND introducing crunch, but more than that, it perplexes me. Fans that are going to be upset by this delay would be upset by any delay. Fans who are fine with this delay, most likely, would be fine with any delay.

So, if you are going to delay the game until September...why not delay it until November or December, and then NOT overwork your coders to the breaking point? I know that a lot of publishers and developers (HI, BIOWARE) seem to feel that crunch is a given to get a game out on time, but when the game is not coming out on time...why are we still getting crunch?

There are a couple of potential reasons.

a) Marketing. It costs a lot of money to raise awareness of a game. Depending on the contracts and timetables those efforts can't be easily shifted and if the game is delayed too long, people might lose interest and you would have to do all the promotional stuff again.

b) This particular game development is paid basically with the Witcher money. If that runs out, external lenders/additional investors are needed and those might make demands. Those last minute cash infusions to ship a game usually come with a lot of strings attached and very unfavourable conditions.

There are more, but i don't think those are relevant in this case.

As for the Crunch itself, there have been some rumours that CDPR has problems with managing its increased size and a couple people are in over their head. But it is still in Europe so European labour laws apply and it is basically guaranteed to be a better working place than any game developer in the US.

Casual Shinji:
Except Shadow of the Colossus had an ideal climbing mechanic that they could have moved wholesale to TLG, minus the stamina gage. In SotC the climbing feels organic; You need to hold a button in order to actually hold on, you weren't magnetized to a colossus' fur. This gave you a level of control over your climbing no other game has ever surpassed. In TLG you have to sluggishly traipse yourself across Trico, because the game locks you onto him as if you're covered in velcro. This makes it so that climbing Trico always feels like a chore, where you're constantly hammering the X button to try and detach yourself from him, because you can't simply let go or jump off him without the annoyance of the kid auto-locking back onto him.

The game also suffers from massive input lag, sometimes with buttons not responding initially when your on Trico. Petting Trico almost always requires a second press of the O button, because pressing and holding it once will often just not do anything. And then there's the giant button prompts which show up for every interaction with a switch, a barrel, a spear, anything, which you can't disable in the options. The controls never become organic or "invisible". And the camera is headache inducing, and not just when you're on Trico. The camera just moves awkwardly and slow. It's like you're playing a Souls game, but the camera is resting on a waterbed. And the combination of the kid's jerky-ass movement and the auto-stop near edges makes for some incredibly clucky maneuvering in tight spots, like high walkways, wooden beams, broken staircases.

Then there's the moments where the game makes you wait for shit to happen, like when you're trapped in the rolling cage or you're hanging from the branch by your collar. Or in the final sequence where it's supposed to be really exciting as you're (auto-)hanging onto another Trico flying around, but the whole sequence is entirely scripted with zero danger, and it goes on for way too long.

And speaking of that spoiler, the game pulls that way too many times as well. Like, how many times does that almost happen? Four times? And each time the game seems to milk it for all it's worth. 'Oh no, now it might REALLY bu true!' Yeah right.

I would definitely agree that a grab button would be better. I really didn't have problems getting onto Trico but getting off was annoying. I didn't really have any issues with the input lag or camera just because the game doesn't require quick inputs or reflexes and I probably just adjusted to the lag. I'm actually pretty good at adjusting to framerate drops in shooters for example. I recall the kid being slightly awkward to move sometimes but I never felt uncomfortable making a jump or platforming. I think the button prompts got fixed with a patch.

Speaking of Last Guardian, that's a game that was delayed until the next console generation. And that game got announced back in 2009. The same thing happened Beyond Good and Evil 2; also announced in 2009, and still nothing to show from Ubisoft. Also, I know this is old news, but the new Watch Dogs has been delayed due to the failure of Division 2 and Ghost Recon Breakpoint (it and its previous entry are not true Ghost Recon games). That's what you get for having all of your games rely on the same AssCreed, open-world, checkbox list formula with shitty "time saver" microtransactions.

CoCage:
The same thing happened Beyond Good and Evil 2; also announced in 2009

Beyond Good and Evil 2 coming out in my lifetime? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, what I meant to say was that I have totally given up on that game ever coming out. Yeah sure, we might get some screen shots or a video every now and then but as you say, we haven't seen or heard anything in at least a year.

You watch, it'll get a release date at E3 this year now I've said that:)

Catfood220:

CoCage:
The same thing happened Beyond Good and Evil 2; also announced in 2009

Beyond Good and Evil 2 coming out in my lifetime? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, what I meant to say was that I have totally given up on that game ever coming out. Yeah sure, we might get some screen shots or a video every now and then but as you say, we haven't seen or heard anything in at least a year.

You watch, it'll get a release date at E3 this year now I've said that:)

I really liked the original but i was somewhat less sold on the new directions they wanted to take with the sequel, so i am not too disappointed.

As for interesting game sequels that get delayed until you doubt they will ever be released, i proudly nominate Mount & Blade 2. But they didn't shift the date recently, so maybe it defies expectations and actually is released.

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here