Doom Eternal previews indicate its going to be masterpeice

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OMG OMG this looks like natural evolution of Doom franchise plus

PC Gamer - "Fast, brutal, and metal as hell, this is the most gleefully manic FPS since 2011's Bulletstorm."
Gamespot - "Doom Eternal's Combat Is Absolute Chaos, And It's Awesome"
IGN - "A ballet performed with bullets, blood, and blasted body parts."
Time - "the Most Pure Form of Doom Ever Made"
CNN-"Blood, guts, gore and fun"

most of previews are insanely positive.

As expected Doom 2016 was best game of last decade. this one will be best game of this decade. what a great start.

I have concerns about the story since it sounds like story will be a much bigger more in your face part of the experience and the bits and pieces of it from the last trailer they released made it sound like the kinda thing that annoys me.

Worgen:
I have concerns about the story since it sounds like story will be a much bigger more in your face part of the experience and the bits and pieces of it from the last trailer they released made it sound like the kinda thing that annoys me.

Yeah that's something I'm super worried about, doom 2016 hit a sweet spot between enough story to keep things interesting (especially the demon world story) but not enough to drag down the action. And it got rightly praised for that, but I'm afraid bethesda might have taken that praise for people wanting much more story. Plus bethesda hasn't exactly inspired confidence in there last couple of release...

Meiam:

Worgen:
I have concerns about the story since it sounds like story will be a much bigger more in your face part of the experience and the bits and pieces of it from the last trailer they released made it sound like the kinda thing that annoys me.

Yeah that's something I'm super worried about, doom 2016 hit a sweet spot between enough story to keep things interesting (especially the demon world story) but not enough to drag down the action. And it got rightly praised for that, but I'm afraid bethesda might have taken that praise for people wanting much more story. Plus bethesda hasn't exactly inspired confidence in there last couple of release...

.

Bethesda are not making it. Id is making ut and puting more effort here by making campaign twice as long and varied.

Meiam:

Worgen:
I have concerns about the story since it sounds like story will be a much bigger more in your face part of the experience and the bits and pieces of it from the last trailer they released made it sound like the kinda thing that annoys me.

Yeah that's something I'm super worried about, doom 2016 hit a sweet spot between enough story to keep things interesting (especially the demon world story) but not enough to drag down the action. And it got rightly praised for that, but I'm afraid bethesda might have taken that praise for people wanting much more story. Plus bethesda hasn't exactly inspired confidence in there last couple of release...

And the annoying parts of 2016's story weren't in your face enough to really force it. Like the Doomslayer being the super special thing, I have a thing about that kinda characterization, it annoys me when you play the super special and the game really pushes it. Like you are the author's baby who is the bestest super baby ever and everyone knows it. Halo 3 kinda did that where it seemed to go from the right guy in the right place with the right tech to almost a religious viewing of the Master Chief.

B-Cell:
Bethesda are not making it. Id is making ut and puting more effort here by making campaign twice as long and varied.

True, but Bethesda is the publisher i.e. the ones funding the development and marketing, and also owner of id Software. I don't know how moch autonomy Bethesda allows its subsidiaries, but the people who own your company and pay your bills tend to have a say in what you do.

Meh, it looks like more Doom. Which i guess is good enough.

It'll be a solid mindless shooter so it's perfect for B-Cell. But it's gonna be a pass for me unless I have nothing to do an Impressions thread on.

CritialGaming:
Meh, it looks like more Doom. Which i guess is good enough.

It'll be a solid mindless shooter so it's perfect for B-Cell. But it's gonna be a pass for me unless I have nothing to do an Impressions thread on.

this time its not so mindless. there will be puzzle and platforming section making it thinking man shooter too.

B-Cell:

Meiam:

Worgen:
I have concerns about the story since it sounds like story will be a much bigger more in your face part of the experience and the bits and pieces of it from the last trailer they released made it sound like the kinda thing that annoys me.

Yeah that's something I'm super worried about, doom 2016 hit a sweet spot between enough story to keep things interesting (especially the demon world story) but not enough to drag down the action. And it got rightly praised for that, but I'm afraid bethesda might have taken that praise for people wanting much more story. Plus bethesda hasn't exactly inspired confidence in there last couple of release...

Bethesda are not making it. Id is making ut and puting more effort here by making campaign twice as long and varied.

Bethesda didn't make Wolfenstein Youngbloods but it's obvious the publisher (not the dev) influenced the crap out of that game.

Phoenixmgs:

B-Cell:

Meiam:

Yeah that's something I'm super worried about, doom 2016 hit a sweet spot between enough story to keep things interesting (especially the demon world story) but not enough to drag down the action. And it got rightly praised for that, but I'm afraid bethesda might have taken that praise for people wanting much more story. Plus bethesda hasn't exactly inspired confidence in there last couple of release...

Bethesda are not making it. Id is making ut and puting more effort here by making campaign twice as long and varied.

Bethesda didn't make Wolfenstein Youngbloods but it's obvious the publisher (not the dev) influenced the crap out of that game.

also machinegames did screwed it up more than bethesda. machinegames wanted to make it RPG coop experience that is grindy. plus they are also some of worst FPS developers as new order and new colossus both are terrible games.

bethesda decision didnot effect Prey, Dishonored 2, Doom 2016, Evil within 2 etc.

even Rage 2 was good on gunplay because id handle the gunplay when entire game was handled by avalanche.

Worgen:

And the annoying parts of 2016's story weren't in your face enough to really force it. Like the Doomslayer being the super special thing, I have a thing about that kinda characterization, it annoys me when you play the super special and the game really pushes it. Like you are the author's baby who is the bestest super baby ever and everyone knows it. Halo 3 kinda did that where it seemed to go from the right guy in the right place with the right tech to almost a religious viewing of the Master Chief.

I hate when your character is the super special things because its usually precede them doing anything to earn that right. Like I'm playing DQ 11 now and your character is born as the destined one, so whenever people praise him it feel hollow (especially since he's mute and has 0 personality and agency). But in doom 2016 it felt more like the doomslayer was just a regular space marine who got really good at killing demon, so the demon started worshiping/fearing him for that since he thoroughly demonstrated that trough the previous entry in the series. And I'm okay with that.

But yeah the trailer for eternal really make it seems like they're going to turn up to 11 the doomslayer worship, which might get too much. Plus with the angel being introduced it feel like there's going to be more story/conspiracy this time around, which, no, not necessary. Keep it simple, I don't need much reason to rip and tear.

Also hope the soundtrack is just as good, apparently when 2016 was in production they initially didn't want to have an heavy metal soundtrack.

Meiam:

Worgen:

And the annoying parts of 2016's story weren't in your face enough to really force it. Like the Doomslayer being the super special thing, I have a thing about that kinda characterization, it annoys me when you play the super special and the game really pushes it. Like you are the author's baby who is the bestest super baby ever and everyone knows it. Halo 3 kinda did that where it seemed to go from the right guy in the right place with the right tech to almost a religious viewing of the Master Chief.

I hate when your character is the super special things because its usually precede them doing anything to earn that right. Like I'm playing DQ 11 now and your character is born as the destined one, so whenever people praise him it feel hollow (especially since he's mute and has 0 personality and agency). But in doom 2016 it felt more like the doomslayer was just a regular space marine who got really good at killing demon, so the demon started worshiping/fearing him for that since he thoroughly demonstrated that trough the previous entry in the series. And I'm okay with that.

But yeah the trailer for eternal really make it seems like they're going to turn up to 11 the doomslayer worship, which might get too much. Plus with the angel being introduced it feel like there's going to be more story/conspiracy this time around, which, no, not necessary. Keep it simple, I don't need much reason to rip and tear.

Also hope the soundtrack is just as good, apparently when 2016 was in production they initially didn't want to have an heavy metal soundtrack.

I would say it felt more like you were the special in 2016, I mean they find you in a rock and say your the key to stopping the demon invasion, plus when you find the demon stone log things in hell they reference the doom slayer as being really scary and such. But it wasn't in your face with it so you could ignore it.

B-Cell:
As expected Doom 2016 was best game of last decade.

Lol, nope. Not even close.

B-Cell:
this one will be best game of this decade.

Lol, nope. You can't honestly think that the best game of the decade will be released at the start of 2020? Even for you, that's painfully juvenile.

Worgen:
I have concerns about the story since it sounds like story will be a much bigger more in your face part of the experience and the bits and pieces of it from the last trailer they released made it sound like the kinda thing that annoys me.

That Id seems to be putting actual effort into the story this time is one of the reasons why I'm actually cautiously optimistic about the game.

Meiam:

Yeah that's something I'm super worried about, doom 2016 hit a sweet spot between enough story to keep things interesting (especially the demon world story) but not enough to drag down the action.

Yeah, I really can't agree.

I've spoken at length as to why Doom 2016's story is lacklustre (IMO), but as to those above points, I'd point out three:

-Technically it does slow the action, in that to get the story, you need to stop and read tablets. This being a visual medium. There's certainly games that can pull it off, but this game isn't one of them. "Show, don't tell." And if you are telling, at least try and make it engaging. It works for BioShock for instance because what happened in Rapture is a mystery the player has to solve. It even worked in Doom 3 because while we know what's happened, we're at least led in to see how it happened. Doom 2016, there's no ambiguity outside the character himself.

-There's a saying in writing that goes (paraphrased), "if you aren't writing about the most interesting point in your character's life, why?" Doom 2016 stands in antithesis to this saying, in that everything described about the Doom Slayer's backstory is more interesting than anything that's going on in the game. Which might have been avoided as a problem, except...

-The story feels slapped together haphazardly, as if they were making things on as they go. Argent D'Nur is never mentioned until about the last 10% of the game, yet is a vital component of the worldbuilding. That the Doom Slayer is the same character from the original games is never confirmed in the game itself, it's confirmed in Quake Champions. And there's the fact that despite sharing that continuity, the game is yet another rehash of the original game. I've said that a simple story told well is preferable to a complex story told poorly, but D2016 is a simple story told poorly - the worst of both worlds.

Worgen:

And the annoying parts of 2016's story weren't in your face enough to really force it. Like the Doomslayer being the super special thing, I have a thing about that kinda characterization, it annoys me when you play the super special and the game really pushes it. Like you are the author's baby who is the bestest super baby ever and everyone knows it. Halo 3 kinda did that where it seemed to go from the right guy in the right place with the right tech to almost a religious viewing of the Master Chief.

I don't mind DS being "the special" in the game. It's patently absurd enough for the plot point to work, and gives in-universe reasoning as to why he can do the things he does, whereas something like Half-Life for instance operates on the principle of "just because" (as to why Gordon isn't dead within 5 minutes). That said, I think it would have worked better if DS was one of the Night Sentinels or at least from Argent D'Nur rather than the original Doomguy. It's a more interesting backstory for starters, and could further justify his apathy to what's going on around him.

Also, never got a sense of John being viewed religiously. With awe, sure, but not religiously. Not unless you include the "demon" moniker used for Spartans by the Covenant.

Meiam:
Plus with the angel being introduced it feel like there's going to be more story/conspiracy this time around, which, no, not necessary. Keep it simple, I don't need much reason to rip and tear.

Frankly, I'm astounded it took them this long to include Heaven.

And speaking personally, I'd like more reasons to kill demons than "demons are bad so you should kill them." I can be forgiving of the original games for their lack of story given when they were made. I can even forgive Doom 3 for being a reboot because it had a clear angle within it. But by 2016, you're running out of excuses.

Hawki:

Worgen:
I have concerns about the story since it sounds like story will be a much bigger more in your face part of the experience and the bits and pieces of it from the last trailer they released made it sound like the kinda thing that annoys me.

That Id seems to be putting actual effort into the story this time is one of the reasons why I'm actually cautiously optimistic about the game.

Meiam:

Yeah that's something I'm super worried about, doom 2016 hit a sweet spot between enough story to keep things interesting (especially the demon world story) but not enough to drag down the action.

Yeah, I really can't agree.

I've spoken at length as to why Doom 2016's story is lacklustre (IMO), but as to those above points, I'd point out three:

-Technically it does slow the action, in that to get the story, you need to stop and read tablets. This being a visual medium. There's certainly games that can pull it off, but this game isn't one of them. "Show, don't tell." And if you are telling, at least try and make it engaging. It works for BioShock for instance because what happened in Rapture is a mystery the player has to solve. It even worked in Doom 3 because while we know what's happened, we're at least led in to see how it happened. Doom 2016, there's no ambiguity outside the character himself.

-There's a saying in writing that goes (paraphrased), "if you aren't writing about the most interesting point in your character's life, why?" Doom 2016 stands in antithesis to this saying, in that everything described about the Doom Slayer's backstory is more interesting than anything that's going on in the game. Which might have been avoided as a problem, except...

-The story feels slapped together haphazardly, as if they were making things on as they go. Argent D'Nur is never mentioned until about the last 10% of the game, yet is a vital component of the worldbuilding. That the Doom Slayer is the same character from the original games is never confirmed in the game itself, it's confirmed in Quake Champions. And there's the fact that despite sharing that continuity, the game is yet another rehash of the original game. I've said that a simple story told well is preferable to a complex story told poorly, but D2016 is a simple story told poorly - the worst of both worlds.

Worgen:

And the annoying parts of 2016's story weren't in your face enough to really force it. Like the Doomslayer being the super special thing, I have a thing about that kinda characterization, it annoys me when you play the super special and the game really pushes it. Like you are the author's baby who is the bestest super baby ever and everyone knows it. Halo 3 kinda did that where it seemed to go from the right guy in the right place with the right tech to almost a religious viewing of the Master Chief.

I don't mind DS being "the special" in the game. It's patently absurd enough for the plot point to work, and gives in-universe reasoning as to why he can do the things he does, whereas something like Half-Life for instance operates on the principle of "just because" (as to why Gordon isn't dead within 5 minutes). That said, I think it would have worked better if DS was one of the Night Sentinels or at least from Argent D'Nur rather than the original Doomguy. It's a more interesting backstory for starters, and could further justify his apathy to what's going on around him.

Also, never got a sense of John being viewed religiously. With awe, sure, but not religiously. Not unless you include the "demon" moniker used for Spartans by the Covenant.

Meiam:
Plus with the angel being introduced it feel like there's going to be more story/conspiracy this time around, which, no, not necessary. Keep it simple, I don't need much reason to rip and tear.

Frankly, I'm astounded it took them this long to include Heaven.

And speaking personally, I'd like more reasons to kill demons than "demons are bad so you should kill them." I can be forgiving of the original games for their lack of story given when they were made. I can even forgive Doom 3 for being a reboot because it had a clear angle within it. But by 2016, you're running out of excuses.

No, something like Halflife gives a reason for him to survive. For one hes got a good hazard suit, for two we have heard it be referenced that Gordon goes to the range which implies he knows how to use a firearm.

The 'demon' moniker was mainly used for the Master Chief since he destroyed the ring which the covenant viewed as a religious artifact, I don't recall them calling him it in Halo 1 or Reach, they might have but I don't recall. In Halo 3 though Cortana says that she saved the MC because she saw something special in him instead of him being the tool they needed in a situation. Reach also does something similar to this with Cortana, instead of just being a ships ai, shes suddenly a really special ships ai that is precious cargo.

Worgen:

No, something like Halflife gives a reason for him to survive. For one hes got a good hazard suit, for two we have heard it be referenced that Gordon goes to the range which implies he knows how to use a firearm.

The hazard suit was designed "to protect them from radiation, energy discharges, blunt-force trauma during the handling of hazardous materials, and the effects of traveling to Xen as part of Survey Teams." It's not combat armour. And even if it was, using guns on a firing range isn't the same thing as being a trained soldier. In HL2, the absurdity is even pointed out by Breen at Nova Prospekt.

The 'demon' moniker was mainly used for the Master Chief since he destroyed the ring

No, that's wrong. The "demon" moniker was used by the Covenant to denote Spartan-IIs. Mainly by the sangheili, which used the term out of both loathing and respect.

See: https://www.halopedia.org/Covenant_religion#Demons

In Halo 3 though Cortana says that she saved the MC because she saw something special in him instead of him being the tool they needed in a situation.

That's a reference to when Cortana chose John as her host in 'The Fall of Reach', when she and Halsey evaluated the Spartan-II profiles. It's also a reference to the coin toss Halsey used for all the recruits, since the Spartan-II Program only had enough resources for 75 candidates as opposed to the surveyed 150.

Reach also does something similar to this with Cortana, instead of just being a ships ai, shes suddenly a really special ships ai that is precious cargo.

Cortana was always special, since she was developed from a flash clone of Halsey as a third gen "smart" AI. That, and she was planned to be part of Operation: RED FLAG from the outset.

Doom is like Mario.

People aren't here for the story. They're here for the gameplay.

Hawki:

-Technically it does slow the action, in that to get the story, you need to stop and read tablets. This being a visual medium. There's certainly games that can pull it off, but this game isn't one of them. "Show, don't tell." And if you are telling, at least try and make it engaging. It works for BioShock for instance because what happened in Rapture is a mystery the player has to solve. It even worked in Doom 3 because while we know what's happened, we're at least led in to see how it happened. Doom 2016, there's no ambiguity outside the character himself.

-There's a saying in writing that goes (paraphrased), "if you aren't writing about the most interesting point in your character's life, why?" Doom 2016 stands in antithesis to this saying, in that everything described about the Doom Slayer's backstory is more interesting than anything that's going on in the game. Which might have been avoided as a problem, except...

-The story feels slapped together haphazardly, as if they were making things on as they go. Argent D'Nur is never mentioned until about the last 10% of the game, yet is a vital component of the worldbuilding. That the Doom Slayer is the same character from the original games is never confirmed in the game itself, it's confirmed in Quake Champions. And there's the fact that despite sharing that continuity, the game is yet another rehash of the original game. I've said that a simple story told well is preferable to a complex story told poorly, but D2016 is a simple story told poorly - the worst of both worlds.

I mean, you didn't have to read those tablet, could have just zoomed right past them. The story is essentially, corporation is using hell for energy, they opened a portal on mars, now demon are pouring out. I don't know what more reasons you need to kill demon than the fact that they're killing every human they come across. Kinda self explanatory (I'm so glad the doomslayer doesn't have some sappy backstory about demon killing his wife or w/e, really really really hope eternal doesn't insert one).

The backstory of the doomslayer is playable. It's doom 1 and 2. That's the whole point. The entire legend you can learn about in hell is literally about the previous games(it's also the confirmation that he's the same character). And I don't know why you think 2016 was an uninteresting part of the doomslayer story, his story has pretty much always been the same, demon show up, he rip and tear them.

Personally I think doom 2016 story is far better than 90-95% of games story.

Hawki:

Worgen:

No, something like Halflife gives a reason for him to survive. For one hes got a good hazard suit, for two we have heard it be referenced that Gordon goes to the range which implies he knows how to use a firearm.

The hazard suit was designed "to protect them from radiation, energy discharges, blunt-force trauma during the handling of hazardous materials, and the effects of traveling to Xen as part of Survey Teams." It's not combat armour. And even if it was, using guns on a firing range isn't the same thing as being a trained soldier. In HL2, the absurdity is even pointed out by Breen at Nova Prospekt.

The 'demon' moniker was mainly used for the Master Chief since he destroyed the ring

No, that's wrong. The "demon" moniker was used by the Covenant to denote Spartan-IIs. Mainly by the sangheili, which used the term out of both loathing and respect.

See: https://www.halopedia.org/Covenant_religion#Demons

In Halo 3 though Cortana says that she saved the MC because she saw something special in him instead of him being the tool they needed in a situation.

That's a reference to when Cortana chose John as her host in 'The Fall of Reach', when she and Halsey evaluated the Spartan-II profiles. It's also a reference to the coin toss Halsey used for all the recruits, since the Spartan-II Program only had enough resources for 75 candidates as opposed to the surveyed 150.

Reach also does something similar to this with Cortana, instead of just being a ships ai, shes suddenly a really special ships ai that is precious cargo.

Cortana was always special, since she was developed from a flash clone of Halsey as a third gen "smart" AI. That, and she was planned to be part of Operation: RED FLAG from the outset.

All that you described would also be useful in a combat suit, the bleed over is understandable and easy to hand wave. Yeah, just going to a firing range doesn't make someone an expert but its better then nothing and suddenly being an expert like in some games. Plus you could also say the suit works great to help stabilize his firing so he never really loses control of the weapon.

In the first Halo they call you a cyborg but not a demon. They don't start calling you a demon till Halo 2. So, I'm going with all that being expanded universe bs and therefor not counting it.
https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Unggoy/Quotes

That still makes it sound like Master Chief is the super special, not just the right guy in the right place with the right tech, which is vastly more interesting.

No, in the first Halo she was just a ships AI. Highly advanced but just a ships ai. The most important thing she had in her databanks was the location of earth, which meant that capture of her was unacceptable since it would tell the covenant where earth was. They added all the other stuff in Reach to make everything more super special and give a feeling of destiny to everything.

Squilookle:
Doom is like Mario.

People aren't here for the story. They're here for the gameplay.

That isn't an unreasonable statement to make. If it was a statement made on the series based purely from Doom 1 to Doom 64, I'd agree with you personally. I'd even agree with you if extending it to the original run of Doom novels.

Problem is with Doom 3, we're at the point where story can't be ignored. Whatever one thinks of Doom 3, both in it and its EU, there was a clear focus on worldbuilding. I can't call D3's story anything more than decent, but it was at least congruent. Mars City felt like an actual Martian base (which is why Hell 'spilling over' works so well atmospherically), and the worldbuilding, while nothing spectacular, was congruent, and revealed at an appropriate pace. Also helps that the novels were much better than their predecessors, and fleshed out the setting even further.

So that leaves us with Doom 2016, and if I'm comparing it to Doom 3, it's so bizzare. On one hand, its worldbuilding hints at more interesting cosmology than D3 (ages of Hell, Argent D'Nur, the Seraph, etc.), yet presents it more poorly. I've already pointed out the gaffs in how it's done, but the difference is that in D3, I could tell that the writers at least cared, whereas in Doom 2016, I don't get that. And I get that this is Doom, where one of its founding fathers compared story in gameplay to story in porn, but John Carmack isn't part of Id anymore, and even when he was, D3 at least partly rejected that ideology. Doom 2016, on the other hand, simultaniously wants to hint at a larger setting, yet also mock the very idea of trying to get engaged in that setting, given how even if the player is interested, the Doom Slayer sure as hell isn't.

Is that a pun? I don't know. Just like I get the sense that the writers didn't know what they wanted either. Which is why I'm a bit more hopeful for Doom Eternal because it's at least introducing something new in terms of context.

TL, DR, even if story isn't the point of Doom, Doom has nevertheless offered story since D3. It's legitimate to evaluate that story be it good or bad.

Meiam:

I mean, you didn't have to read those tablet, could have just zoomed right past them.

Um, yes? I get a choice between poor story and no story. That isn't a point in the game's favour.

The story is essentially, corporation is using hell for energy, they opened a portal on mars, now demon are pouring out. I don't know what more reasons you need to kill demon than the fact that they're killing every human they come across. Kinda self explanatory

Motivations aren't the same thing as worldbuilding, nor the be all and end all of plot.

Of course, the fact that this is the same old shit we've done over and over (D1, D3, D 2016, and other games if you replace Mars with other locations) is another matter. D3 at least had the excuse of going for realism and being a hard reboot, while D 2016 doesn't. It's a soft reboot that does the same thing as its predecessors, and that it even WAS a soft reboot wasn't confirmed until after the game was released (unless I missed something).

(I'm so glad the doomslayer doesn't have some sappy backstory about demon killing his wife or w/e, really really really hope eternal doesn't insert one).

Oh don't worry, he's still torn up over Daisy. :P

The backstory of the doomslayer is playable. It's doom 1 and 2. That's the whole point. The entire legend you can learn about in hell is literally about the previous games(it's also the confirmation that he's the same character).

No. It isn't.

What does the backstory describe? It describes the Slayer tearing Hell a new one, especially after being visited by the Seraph. It details him felling the Titan, before finally being defeated and imprisoned in the tomb. It also describes the Night Sentinels, Argent D'Nur, and the Sentinel who lost his son and somesuch, which, prior to QC, led me to believe that the Slayer was that same person - a former Sentinel, and Argent D'Nur...ian?

Point is, nothing in the backstory mentions the previous games. It doesn't mention a different Mars, or Phobos, or Deimos, or a different UAC, or a different Earth, or Doom 64 (which leads into D 2016 better than Doom 2 IMO, but whatever), or anything like that, and the Doom Slayer doesn't seem perturbed at all that apparently more than one version of Earth exists in this multiverse. You might be able to leave it to interpretation, that we're meant to assume that everything in the backstory happened after the original series, but I have three problems with that.

1) The Seraph. He gives the Slayer a power boost of some sort. This isn't bad in of itself (I like this idea actually), but it means there's a disconnect between the Slayer and his old "Doomguy" persona. If you need to be powered up by an angel to do the things he does, then how was he able to accomplish similar feats in the old games? I get that there's a difference between defending Mars/Earth and rampaging through Hell, but he does rampage through Hell, at least three times. He defeats Cyberdemons 1v1 FFS!

2) There's clearly some kind of connection between the Slayer and Night Sentinels, or at least, it's heavilly implied to be. But by this chain of events, there can't really be. By the timeframe of D1, Hell will have already absorbed Argent D'Nur and gone about destroying everything else. So that moment where the Sentinels walk up to the Slayer is thus removed from a lot of its pathos...and this is a game where pathos is in very short supply already. Which isn't bad if it had gone fully comedic, but replaying that scene in my mind, it goes from something like "you have avenged us and Argent D'Nur, and we give you our silent thanks" to "hey, wassup, nice demon kill" Christ, even D3 did this better with the carving of the original Martian hero who used the soul cube.

3) I highly doubt there was some concrete attempt at ambiguity, because again, the Slayer was confirmed as the Doomguy later on...in a different game...in an obscure lore blurb...

If Id was going for ambiguity, then they screwed up. Either in the game itself, or in Quake Champions. However, the more likely scenario for me is that they left it ambiguous because they hadn't decided. Yes, they hadn't decided one of the core features of their main protagonist until after the story featuring said protagonist was released.

And I don't know why you think 2016 was an uninteresting part of the doomslayer story, his story has pretty much always been the same, demon show up, he rip and tear them.

Well, for starters, we didn't know that 2016 was a continuation of the story until after it was released. That, and it's a continuation that's based on doing the same thing we did in D1, D3, and arguably other games. And okay, fine, Doom isn't story-heavy, but it spends all this time describing far more interesting material, such as the Seraph, and Argent D'Nur, and yet we see nothing of it. And, fine, maybe we don't have to see something, but what we're left with is so lacklustre that it's hard to care.

Personally I think doom 2016 story is far better than 90-95% of games story.

Um, okay...

Look, to each their own, but Doom 2016's story actively irritates me. It isn't that it's lacklustre, it's that all the pieces were there for something interesting, yet it feels like it's also mocking the idea of getting invested in it at all. Like the writers were split into the old Carmack philosophy, and those who remembered that it's the year 2016, and that games have evolved from the days where plot boiled down to "demons are bad, shoot them." That, and Doom 3, which managed to tell a decent, if not great story.

Might not have minded so much if the gameplay didn't have its share of problems as well, but that's another issue.

Worgen:

All that you described would also be useful in a combat suit, the bleed over is understandable and easy to hand wave. Yeah, just going to a firing range doesn't make someone an expert but its better then nothing and suddenly being an expert like in some games.

...such as?

I can't think of many FPS games where the protagonist isn't already versed with firearms. Like, I know you get your Alan Wakes every so often (I know, not an FPS or whatever), but Gordon still accomplishes feats across the series that should be impossible for even the most highly trained soldier.

I don't actually mind this too much, as it's an idiosyncracy in a series that's full of them, but it's still a strain of credulity.

In the first Halo they call you a cyborg but not a demon. They don't start calling you a demon till Halo 2. So, I'm going with all that being expanded universe bs and therefor not counting it.

Cyborg is a literal term, demon a cultural one. The two don't contradict each other.

Also, if you're simply using the excuse of "EU doesn't count," then there's not much point discussing it any further unless we're arbitarily deciding that the sum total of a fictional universe is confined only to its core media.

No, in the first Halo she was just a ships AI. Highly advanced but just a ships ai. The most important thing she had in her databanks was the location of earth, which meant that capture of her was unacceptable since it would tell the covenant where earth was. They added all the other stuff in Reach to make everything more super special and give a feeling of destiny to everything.

That "stuff they added" was already part of Cortana's character. It was part of her character before the first game was even released.

And none of this is incongruent. Cortana's an advanced AI that was developed in part for RED FLAG. Even if she wasn't, her databanks would still remain a valid plot point. Her origins, as far as H1 go, are more connected to her ability to interface with Forerunner tech than the mission she was already designed for, since that mission was scrapped as soon as the Pillar of Autumn got the recall order to defend Reach.

B-Cell:

PC Gamer - "Fast, brutal, and metal as hell, this is the most gleefully manic FPS since 2011's Bulletstorm."
Gamespot - "Doom Eternal's Combat Is Absolute Chaos, And It's Awesome"
IGN - "A ballet performed with bullets, blood, and blasted body parts."
Time - "the Most Pure Form of Doom Ever Made"
CNN-"Blood, guts, gore and fun"

Fairly certain I could pull up any number of games that B-Cell dislikes and find very similar accolades as these from the exact same sources, prior to release.

These comments don't mean shit.

Worgen:

Meiam:

Worgen:

And the annoying parts of 2016's story weren't in your face enough to really force it. Like the Doomslayer being the super special thing, I have a thing about that kinda characterization, it annoys me when you play the super special and the game really pushes it. Like you are the author's baby who is the bestest super baby ever and everyone knows it. Halo 3 kinda did that where it seemed to go from the right guy in the right place with the right tech to almost a religious viewing of the Master Chief.

I hate when your character is the super special things because its usually precede them doing anything to earn that right. Like I'm playing DQ 11 now and your character is born as the destined one, so whenever people praise him it feel hollow (especially since he's mute and has 0 personality and agency). But in doom 2016 it felt more like the doomslayer was just a regular space marine who got really good at killing demon, so the demon started worshiping/fearing him for that since he thoroughly demonstrated that trough the previous entry in the series. And I'm okay with that.

But yeah the trailer for eternal really make it seems like they're going to turn up to 11 the doomslayer worship, which might get too much. Plus with the angel being introduced it feel like there's going to be more story/conspiracy this time around, which, no, not necessary. Keep it simple, I don't need much reason to rip and tear.

Also hope the soundtrack is just as good, apparently when 2016 was in production they initially didn't want to have an heavy metal soundtrack.

I would say it felt more like you were the special in 2016, I mean they find you in a rock and say your the key to stopping the demon invasion, plus when you find the demon stone log things in hell they reference the doom slayer as being really scary and such. But it wasn't in your face with it so you could ignore it.

The Doomslayer in 16 wasn't the special guy to start with, he was a regulat guy (maybe a soldier or knight or whatever), who went out to avenge his world/kingdom/whatever it was. After a relative amount of success there), it was after a relative amount of success or effort into said objective he got given his superpowers and the advanced armour suit (and then the demons trapped him in the rock).

MAssive violation of show-don't-tell and all, but backstory wise, he did earn his status. HE wasn't just born the Doomslayer or what have you.

Adam Jensen:

B-Cell:
As expected Doom 2016 was best game of last decade.

Lol, nope. Not even close.

Tied with Deus Ex Human Revolution it is Mr Jensen.

B-Cell:

Adam Jensen:

B-Cell:
As expected Doom 2016 was best game of last decade.

Lol, nope. Not even close.

Tied with Deus Ex Human Revolution it is Mr Jensen.

You smoke a truly insane amount of crack.

And if Doom Eternal is the best game of this decade then fucking hell our trajectory is depressing.

Pro tip from someone who bought way more game magazines than actual games cause they were a sad bastard: previews always but always go for the most positive gushing angle for any big upcoming game release, for reasons I can only assume being not wanting to piss off sponsors any more than they have to, or maybe an actual signing of some kind of NDA type agreements going on between publisher and "enthusiast" press. Not that this particular game won't provide the outlet Chief Warrant Officer B-Cell is looking for, just that those quotes don't mean anything much when deployed in previews. Knowledge is power, and power is what Doom people like, so there is free knowledge powers for you to impress...whoever it is your like to impress with them!

Neurotic Void Melody:
Pro tip from someone who bought way more game magazines than actual games cause they were a sad bastard: previews always but always go for the most positive gushing angle for any big upcoming game release, for reasons I can only assume being not wanting to piss off sponsors any more than they have to, or maybe an actual signing of some kind of NDA type agreements going on between publisher and "enthusiast" press. Not that this particular game won't provide the outlet chief warrant officer B-cell is looking for, just that those quotes don't mean anything much when deployed in previews. Knowledge is power, and power is what Doom people like, so there is free knowledge powers for you to impress...whoever it is your like to impress with them!

As someone who once worked for a game magazine on the side, I can confirm this happens. Both the restrictive NDA's and only focusing on the positive to appease advertisers.

It was never explicitly demanded (more like soft pressure or smoke screen distractions), and didn't happen as frequently as many likely believe, but more often than most people that weren't in marketing or higher up the hierarchy cared for. As you might guess, such pressure was most prevalent from the major publishers, the Western ones generally more so than the Japanese (notable exception being Nintendo).

Gordon_4:

B-Cell:

Adam Jensen:

Lol, nope. Not even close.

Tied with Deus Ex Human Revolution it is Mr Jensen.

You smoke a truly insane amount of crack.

And if Doom Eternal is the best game of this decade then fucking hell our trajectory is depressing.

From his perspective which is heavily geared towards FPS and manly protagonist it's entirely possible, barring another improved sequel.

I'm mostly curious about id Tech 7, which apparently is pretty impressive.

Maybe if I can finish D-16 and am still eager for more I'll get Eternal. A good old school shooter wrapped in high end tech is a staple of PC gaming.

Chimpzy:

Neurotic Void Melody:
Pro tip from someone who bought way more game magazines than actual games cause they were a sad bastard: previews always but always go for the most positive gushing angle for any big upcoming game release, for reasons I can only assume being not wanting to piss off sponsors any more than they have to, or maybe an actual signing of some kind of NDA type agreements going on between publisher and "enthusiast" press. Not that this particular game won't provide the outlet chief warrant officer B-cell is looking for, just that those quotes don't mean anything much when deployed in previews. Knowledge is power, and power is what Doom people like, so there is free knowledge powers for you to impress...whoever it is your like to impress with them!

As someone who once worked for a game magazine on the side, I can confirm this happens. Both the restrictive NDA's and only focusing on the positive to appease advertisers.

It was never explicitly demanded (more like soft pressure or smoke screen distractions), and didn't happen as frequently as many likely believe, but more often than most people that weren't in marketing or higher up the hierarchy cared for. As you might guess, such pressure was most prevalent from the major publishers, the Western ones generally more so than the Japanese (notable exception being Nintendo).

...although there are times when the gaming press will either voice concern or flat out go silent, which typically indicates low review scores are soon to follow. Think Wolfenstein Young Blood, Fallout 76, Rage 2...gee I'm sensing a pattern here.

Hawki:

Worgen:

All that you described would also be useful in a combat suit, the bleed over is understandable and easy to hand wave. Yeah, just going to a firing range doesn't make someone an expert but its better then nothing and suddenly being an expert like in some games.

...such as?

I can't think of many FPS games where the protagonist isn't already versed with firearms. Like, I know you get your Alan Wakes every so often (I know, not an FPS or whatever), but Gordon still accomplishes feats across the series that should be impossible for even the most highly trained soldier.

I don't actually mind this too much, as it's an idiosyncracy in a series that's full of them, but it's still a strain of credulity.

In the first Halo they call you a cyborg but not a demon. They don't start calling you a demon till Halo 2. So, I'm going with all that being expanded universe bs and therefor not counting it.

Cyborg is a literal term, demon a cultural one. The two don't contradict each other.

Also, if you're simply using the excuse of "EU doesn't count," then there's not much point discussing it any further unless we're arbitarily deciding that the sum total of a fictional universe is confined only to its core media.

No, in the first Halo she was just a ships AI. Highly advanced but just a ships ai. The most important thing she had in her databanks was the location of earth, which meant that capture of her was unacceptable since it would tell the covenant where earth was. They added all the other stuff in Reach to make everything more super special and give a feeling of destiny to everything.

That "stuff they added" was already part of Cortana's character. It was part of her character before the first game was even released.

And none of this is incongruent. Cortana's an advanced AI that was developed in part for RED FLAG. Even if she wasn't, her databanks would still remain a valid plot point. Her origins, as far as H1 go, are more connected to her ability to interface with Forerunner tech than the mission she was already designed for, since that mission was scrapped as soon as the Pillar of Autumn got the recall order to defend Reach.

Bioshock 1, sure you could say he had firearm proficiency programmed into him but he has no military background at all. I would argue that even the character in bioshock infinite shouldn't be that proficient despite being in the 7th Calvary since he wouldn't have had access to all the advanced weapons they had in Columbia. Even in COD there are parts where this comes up, in Blackops 2 if you make the right choices you can end up playing a woman who you were sent to rescue and shes just as proficient with the firearms as anyone despite the fact that literally nothing in her back story even hints she had ever held a gun. Even most games where you play a cop or ex cop or whatever really mainly come down to time on the range. Most cops don't end up taking special tactics classes. And this isn't even mentioning the huge variety of weapons that the characters who do know guns suddenly just know how to use and I'm not just talking about weird alien guns that they somehow know how to reload and aim.

Uh huh, yeah, right.

To paraphrase Yahtzee 'fuck the extended universe.' If it's not in the games it doesn't matter.

Them adding that doesn't really conflict with how she was established in H1, but it does make things less interesting because it just makes her more and more of the super special, which is boring.

Seth Carter:

Worgen:

Meiam:

I hate when your character is the super special things because its usually precede them doing anything to earn that right. Like I'm playing DQ 11 now and your character is born as the destined one, so whenever people praise him it feel hollow (especially since he's mute and has 0 personality and agency). But in doom 2016 it felt more like the doomslayer was just a regular space marine who got really good at killing demon, so the demon started worshiping/fearing him for that since he thoroughly demonstrated that trough the previous entry in the series. And I'm okay with that.

But yeah the trailer for eternal really make it seems like they're going to turn up to 11 the doomslayer worship, which might get too much. Plus with the angel being introduced it feel like there's going to be more story/conspiracy this time around, which, no, not necessary. Keep it simple, I don't need much reason to rip and tear.

Also hope the soundtrack is just as good, apparently when 2016 was in production they initially didn't want to have an heavy metal soundtrack.

I would say it felt more like you were the special in 2016, I mean they find you in a rock and say your the key to stopping the demon invasion, plus when you find the demon stone log things in hell they reference the doom slayer as being really scary and such. But it wasn't in your face with it so you could ignore it.

The Doomslayer in 16 wasn't the special guy to start with, he was a regulat guy (maybe a soldier or knight or whatever), who went out to avenge his world/kingdom/whatever it was. After a relative amount of success there), it was after a relative amount of success or effort into said objective he got given his superpowers and the advanced armour suit (and then the demons trapped him in the rock).

MAssive violation of show-don't-tell and all, but backstory wise, he did earn his status. HE wasn't just born the Doomslayer or what have you.

Where does it say that in game? Cause I only remember stuff about them finding him and him being a legend that demon parents would tell their kids to scare them. So thats kinda the opposite from him being just a normal dude, like he was in the original doom.

What would we get if Yoshi and B-cell performed the fusion dance together?

Specter Von Baren:
What would we get if Yoshi and B-cell performed the fusion dance together?

Non-stop threads raving about Metroid Prime and Splatoon, maybe? I dunno

Squilookle:

Specter Von Baren:
What would we get if Yoshi and B-cell performed the fusion dance together?

Non-stop threads raving about Metroid Prime and Splatoon, maybe? I dunno

Wouldn't Metroid Prime violate B-Cell's "no girls!" (for protagonists) principle?

Hawki:

Squilookle:

Specter Von Baren:
What would we get if Yoshi and B-cell performed the fusion dance together?

Non-stop threads raving about Metroid Prime and Splatoon, maybe? I dunno

Wouldn't Metroid Prime violate B-Cell's "no girls!" (for protagonists) principle?

Probably, but I'm sure the Yoshi half of the psyche could convince him that a life spent only praising one shooter is not a life worth leading, so adding another shooter where a girl is covered head to toe in armour is probably a compromise he's willing to take. ...maybe.

I loved Doom 2016. Got the Platinum for it. But it is, at its core, a straightforward and uncomplicated meathead shooter.

Nothing wrong with that, obviously; it's great fun. But the idea that its the greatest game of the decade-- beating dozens of games with much more sophisticated combat, more varied gameplay, more compelling stories and characters... that's just hilarious.

Looking forward to Eternal though. It'll be a highlight of 2020 for me at least.

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