Skyrim vs Death Stranding (interesting comparison)

This video compares the magic system in Skyrim to the Timefall of Death Stranding in regards to the how well each game world builds each of those elements in their game.

Note: I haven't played either game.

I've always never felt the world ever truly feels "real" in any fantasy setting with magic involved. I always found it very odd that people wouldn't use magic to increase their quality of life like we've done with our own technology. I, no joke, always think about how The Flintstones used dinosaurs in the cartoon as today's household appliances and always wonder why a society filled with magic doesn't use it to create say indoor plumbing, heating/cooling, fridge, etc. Sure, you'd have to think of those "new ideas" and then apply magic but you'd think someone would ask a mage if they could do something about having to go to the river for water all the damn time.

I call BS on how the timefall is so geniusly implemented. The first thing I noted when playing the game is how fucking stupid it is to only cover your head in a hood, leaving your entire face exposed, when there's freaking death rain. Even when you carry an umbrella you can still get little bits of spray on your face when you're in the rain - a hood will do absolutely bupkis to keeping your face dry. So why the fuck aren't these guys wearing helmets?

Secondly, that delivery man outfit sure seems quite impervious to the timefall, never needing be fixed or replaced. Why? How? And why the fuck isn't everything covered in that material, or at least the deliveries? Or what about the BB container, how come that's not effected? Is it because it's made of glass? Then why not have packages made of glass? I mean, the BB container is durable enough to not break while you're falling on your ass while traveling so that's no excuse.

The magic in the jailcell thing is stupid in Skyrim, and so are a lot of other things, but let's not pretend the timefall isn't equally retarded. And probably more so since it's presenting itself as science fiction.

Casual Shinji:
I call BS on how the timefall is so geniusly implemented. The first thing I noted when playing the game is how fucking stupid it is to only cover your head in a hood, leaving your entire face exposed, when there's freaking death rain. Even when you carry an umbrella you can still get little bits of spray on your face when you're in the rain - a hood will do absolutely bupkis to keeping your face dry. So why the fuck aren't these guys wearing helmets?

Secondly, that delivery man outfit sure seems quite impervious to the timefall, never needing be fixed or replaced. Why? How? And why the fuck isn't everything covered in that material, or at least the deliveries? Or what about the BB container, how come that's not effected? Is it because it's made of glass? Then why not have packages made of glass? I mean, the BB container is durable enough to not break while you're falling on your ass while traveling so that's no excuse.

The magic in the jailcell thing is stupid in Skyrim, and so are a lot of other things, but let's not pretend the timefall isn't equally retarded. And probably more so since it's presenting itself as science fiction.

Time fall only affects the first thing it hits so splash or spray doesn't have the affect, but its still silly because people will look up fall down and rain will fall sideways and such.

Casual Shinji:
I call BS on how the timefall is so geniusly implemented. The first thing I noted when playing the game is how fucking stupid it is to only cover your head in a hood, leaving your entire face exposed, when there's freaking death rain. Even when you carry an umbrella you can still get little bits of spray on your face when you're in the rain - a hood will do absolutely bupkis to keeping your face dry. So why the fuck aren't these guys wearing helmets?

Secondly, that delivery man outfit sure seems quite impervious to the timefall, never needing be fixed or replaced. Why? How? And why the fuck isn't everything covered in that material, or at least the deliveries? Or what about the BB container, how come that's not effected? Is it because it's made of glass? Then why not have packages made of glass? I mean, the BB container is durable enough to not break while you're falling on your ass while traveling so that's no excuse.

The magic in the jailcell thing is stupid in Skyrim, and so are a lot of other things, but let's not pretend the timefall isn't equally retarded. And probably more so since it's presenting itself as science fiction.

A Hideo Kojima game that doesn't make sense? How on Earth...

One of the comments quoting Larry Niven puts it perfectly: If you invent the car, you have to invent the traffic jam.

Adam Jensen:

Casual Shinji:
I call BS on how the timefall is so geniusly implemented. The first thing I noted when playing the game is how fucking stupid it is to only cover your head in a hood, leaving your entire face exposed, when there's freaking death rain. Even when you carry an umbrella you can still get little bits of spray on your face when you're in the rain - a hood will do absolutely bupkis to keeping your face dry. So why the fuck aren't these guys wearing helmets?

Secondly, that delivery man outfit sure seems quite impervious to the timefall, never needing be fixed or replaced. Why? How? And why the fuck isn't everything covered in that material, or at least the deliveries? Or what about the BB container, how come that's not effected? Is it because it's made of glass? Then why not have packages made of glass? I mean, the BB container is durable enough to not break while you're falling on your ass while traveling so that's no excuse.

The magic in the jailcell thing is stupid in Skyrim, and so are a lot of other things, but let's not pretend the timefall isn't equally retarded. And probably more so since it's presenting itself as science fiction.

A Hideo Kojima game that doesn't make sense? How on Earth...

STOP THE PRESSES! I am shocked. Shocked!

The best part of unmodded Skyrim was wandering around the environment so Death Stranding can only be an improvement. I mean while I',m sure the story is snookaloopy, it will at least be an interesting type of snookaloopy that Hideo is known for.

Magic is generally (and there are exxceptions) positioned as a primal force that humans/etc often have only a handful of understanding or very basic ability to control. Which certainly is how its presented in Skyrim. Few, if any of the NPCs in the world seem to be capable of large scale magecraft that could alter society, or similar constructs and long term enchantments (Enchanting in game literally burns up soul gems to add a bit of fire to a sword, can you imagine the time and resource cost to keep refilling the soul gems to make the toilet flush)

Much of Skyrim doesn't gel together well to make a believable world, but its more in the non-reactive NPCs, the desolate roads in this populated kingdom, the allegedly populated kingdom that has maybe a hundred people in it all told, etc. Ye olde classic staple (and Oblivion had this too), of Bandits having fortresses literally in eyesight of capitals.

Skyrim (and I can't speak for DS, haven't played it), basically steps out of the gate with jarring unbelievability. You go from a dragon taking on a small army and destroyign a town. To a dragon taking down a singular watchtower and being bested by a half dozen random scrubs. Further dragons don't even get that much respect, the dragons for their part don't manage to damage towns, burn fields, etc. This bleeds out into most other major threads as well. The big war changes the guards outfits and a single NPC if a town is switched and the otherv side never attempts to reclaim it. The Emperor gets killed and literally no one cares. The more contained questlines in the other guilds almost seem reasonable in their effects, but the player still becomes a leader with absolutely no influence to speak of.

Seth Carter:
snip

...

*whispers* Hey! This is the part where you recommend a game that does the things that Skyrim fails to do.

CaitSeith:

Seth Carter:
snip

...

*whispers* Hey! This is the part where you recommend a game that does the things that Skyrim fails to do.

I'm open to suggestions.

I mean, I've heard the Witcher 3 does great things. But its awful at the actual gameplay bits, and the character bores me to death (which is ironic when we're comparing it to a blank slate, but absence is better then incessant boringness).

In the slew of other open worlds, they all have much of Skyrims issues to my experience. Mostly held off a tiny bit by having more grounded or secretive stories that you'd expect not to affect the world so much.

Linear campaigns by and large avoid it. They don't have to blunt the edges of every interaction in case you repeat it 300 times. IF you took Skyrims main quest and made it a linear campaign, you'd fight (IIRC, its been 8 years) 6 dragons total. Which would leave plenty of room for them to be suitably impressive.

Never cared for Elder Scrolls in general, and Death Stranding I'm barely interested in. All I have to say is, don't by the PS3 version of Skyrim. Bethesda never patched it once, and it's know for multiple gamebreaking bugs.

CaitSeith:
One of the comments quoting Larry Niven puts it perfectly: If you invent the car, you have to invent the traffic jam.

Do you really invent it though, or simply expect it?

So timefall is harmless after it hits stuff? Like the rain carries a "time" charge that it loses upon contact with something?

So what about air? Does contact with air not expend enough charge to matter? Or is timefall conveniently not affected by gases and only liquids/solids count? Yes, it's nitpicky, but media with "does X upon contact with something" mcguffins tend to forget that air is not nothing, and it sort of annoys me.

Or plantlife? Is it not affected? Seen some videos of Norman Reedus trudging through grass during timefall. Grass seems fine.

Chimpzy:
So timefall is harmless after it hits stuff? Like the rain carries a "time" charge that it loses upon contact with something?

So what about air? Does contact with air not expend enough charge to matter? Or is timefall conveniently not affected by gases and only liquids/solids count? Yes, it's nitpicky, but media with "does X upon contact with something" mcguffins tend to forget that air is not nothing, and it sort of annoys me.

Or plantlife? Is it not affected? Seen some videos of Norman Reedus trudging through grass during timefall. Grass seems fine.

It's obvious Kojima wanted to tell a tale about connection with gameplay to substantiate that premise, not nerds obsessing over details. It's pretty obvious every effort in Death Stranding is put in presentation and cinematography not necessarily having some kind of immaculate consistency in the game world which is pretty much second fiddle. There is a cutscene with Fragile as well that is quite incongruous with the characteristics of timefall, as like there is some kind of timer on it that halts its effect after a specific amount of exposure. But well, the cutscene is dramatic and, again, one of the best pieces of cinematography in any game ever and that is really all that guy ever cared about. His twitter says ''my body is 70% movies'' which yeah, makes sense if you played any of his games. Timefall in DS is more like a 'theme enhancer' for emo cutscenes and gameplay systems than anything to ponder or analize.

stroopwafel:

Chimpzy:
snip

It's obvious Kojima wanted to tell a tale about connection with gameplay to substantiate that premise, not nerds obsessing over details. It's pretty obvious every effort in Death Stranding is put in presentation and cinematography not necessarily having some kind of immaculate consistency in the game world which is pretty much second fiddle. There is a cutscene with Fragile as well that is quite incongruous with the characteristics of timefall, as like there is some kind of timer on it that halts its effect after a specific amount of exposure. But well, the cutscene is dramatic and, again, one of the best pieces of cinematography in any game ever and that is really all that guy ever cared about. His twitter says ''my body is 70% movies'' which yeah, makes sense if you played any of his games. Timefall in DS is more like a 'theme enhancer' for emo cutscenes and gameplay systems than anything to ponder or analize.

Of course, Kojima is most definitely a "drama first" guy, tho I don't think he's that good at it (but that's personal preference).

I wasn't expecting the attention to detail and internal consistency you'd expect from hard sci-fi. Just felt like being a pedantic fuck.

hanselthecaretaker:

CaitSeith:
One of the comments quoting Larry Niven puts it perfectly: If you invent the car, you have to invent the traffic jam.

Do you really invent it though, or simply expect it?

You have to invent it because the audience expects it. If it isn't there when it should, you must invent a reason, unless you don't care about their suspension of disbelief.

Chimpzy:
Or plantlife? Is it not affected? Seen some videos of Norman Reedus trudging through grass during timefall. Grass seems fine.

The video mentions that and that's why there's like only grass and moss.

Phoenixmgs:

Chimpzy:
Or plantlife? Is it not affected? Seen some videos of Norman Reedus trudging through grass during timefall. Grass seems fine.

The video mentions that and that's why there's like only grass and moss.

Pretty much this. Timefall ages stuff, so life-forms that can reproduce asexually (like grass) would proliferate under timefall.

Chimpzy:
So timefall is harmless after it hits stuff? Like the rain carries a "time" charge that it loses upon contact with something?

So what about air? Does contact with air not expend enough charge to matter? Or is timefall conveniently not affected by gases and only liquids/solids count? Yes, it's nitpicky, but media with "does X upon contact with something" mcguffins tend to forget that air is not nothing, and it sort of annoys me.

Or plantlife? Is it not affected? Seen some videos of Norman Reedus trudging through grass during timefall. Grass seems fine.

There are way more problems than that. Putting aside the "mechanics" of the whole thing, it's just kind of there and doesn't really reinforce anything thematically. The whole game is a jumbled mess

Phoenixmgs:

Chimpzy:
Or plantlife? Is it not affected? Seen some videos of Norman Reedus trudging through grass during timefall. Grass seems fine.

The video mentions that and that's why there's like only grass and moss.

Except the game starts with a cutscene totally showing the timefall affecting the grass (it grows swiftly, then dies swiftly), yet during gameplay the grass remains completely unaffected. Also, there's a wooded area early on in the game, where timefall is occuring, and guess what it does to the trees? Absolutely nothing.

CaitSeith:

hanselthecaretaker:

CaitSeith:
One of the comments quoting Larry Niven puts it perfectly: If you invent the car, you have to invent the traffic jam.

Do you really invent it though, or simply expect it?

You have to invent it because the audience expects it. If it isn't there when it should, you must invent a reason, unless you don't care about their suspension of disbelief.

I should've clarified I was referring to the traffic jam part of that.

hanselthecaretaker:

CaitSeith:

hanselthecaretaker:

Do you really invent it though, or simply expect it?

You have to invent it because the audience expects it. If it isn't there when it should, you must invent a reason, unless you don't care about their suspension of disbelief.

I should've clarified I was referring to the traffic jam part of that.

I am referring to the traffic jam part.

CaitSeith:

hanselthecaretaker:

CaitSeith:

You have to invent it because the audience expects it. If it isn't there when it should, you must invent a reason, unless you don't care about their suspension of disbelief.

I should've clarified I was referring to the traffic jam part of that.

I am referring to the traffic jam part.

I was implying the traffic jam would simply happen as a result of inventing the car. Hence, no invention really needed it would seem.

hanselthecaretaker:

CaitSeith:

hanselthecaretaker:

I should've clarified I was referring to the traffic jam part of that.

I am referring to the traffic jam part.

I was implying the traffic jam would simply happen as a result of inventing the car. Hence, no invention really needed it would seem.

In the real world that happens naturally. If an author invents one thing, they have to invent all the things that would come with it. If a book has flying cars, the author would have to invent a traffic system for that because 1) People have issues driving on a 2D plane let alone a 3D one and 2) I doubt you can use the same system airplanes use when considering the number of cars.

hanselthecaretaker:

CaitSeith:

hanselthecaretaker:

I should've clarified I was referring to the traffic jam part of that.

I am referring to the traffic jam part.

I was implying the traffic jam would simply happen as a result of inventing the car. Hence, no invention really needed it would seem.

And one would think that anti-magic measures in prisons would simply happen as a result of magic-wielding criminals existing; but Skyrim just twiddle its thumbs...

Heck! In the intro, Ulfric was gagged while prisoner because he was capable of using dragon shouts!

Doesn't matter how well one game does a certain thing better than another game does, if one of them has incessant product placement, I will always select the other regardless of what standard is brandished. Do those drinks have an in-game reason for still being there? Don't answer that, there's probably a codex somewhere saying they shit time through their skin or some bollocks. It kinda also taints every theme any said game intends to explore. To throw some completely random examples in for the entirely unrelated product of "Monster"...

Game: "Killing a person isn't right, that's a whole life, man!" (A whole extra life that can be spending their income on monster energy drink!

Game: "War is bad, man!" (It only leads to more death, and as we already know, less people to buy monster energy drink!

Game: "We must connect...with our..the...strands... connect...be nice to each other, man!" (And have a socially responsible conversation over these fresh quenching monster energy drinks!TM)

Game: "By gosh look at these tits and ass!" (Just buy the fucking drink already, that's Monster energy drink!TM (only 1 pounds sterling* at your nearest store! *Prices may vary from store to store, obviously, idiot.))

Admittedly, I have a very low tolerance for such use of tactic, especially when entirely unnecessary in this case.

Neurotic Void Melody:
snip

At least the annoying product placement cans get replaced at mid-game for a fictional brand of beer.

image

Now if there was a way to get rid of all the Ride with Norman Reedus references...

CaitSeith:

At least the annoying product placement cans get replaced at mid-game for a fictional brand of beer.

image

Now if there was a way to get rid of all the Ride with Norman Reedus references...

Well it's relieving to know there is some element of choice in exposure. Though personally, if it were me trying to remain an auteur while shoveling in some brand for extra cash, I'd have made a it a small side quest narrative about the said company doing some unwholesome shit in the world, which by solving and completing, awards the choice of superior, less reality-based brands. It would very much be having one's cake and sexually harassing it too, of course.
(Still got no idea or really interest in what Ride with Norm is, but am assuming it's about bikes cause there's a series of motorbike racing games called Ride and Norm looks a bit bikery anyway. Foolproof deduction at work!)

 

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