PS5 backwards compatibility

I'm sure there's been something on the forum about this before but I read some rumours that the PS5 will be backwards compatible with all previous PlayStation generations. Is this confirmed or does anyone have any insight? If this is true I'm getting it on launch.

If it were confirmed then you wouldn't have read it as a rumor, would you?

The best we can say with pretty much absolute certainty is that the PS5 will be backwards compatible with PS4 games.

Anything beyond that is wishful thinking.

The only "source" that I could think of for PS1-PS3 compatibility is some Twitter user a while ago posting something like; "Don't throw away your old PS1-PS4 games #PS5".
There might also be certain filed patents that could possibly be interpreted as being used for PS1-PS3 compatibility, but we all know that patents don't necessarily translate to reality all the time.

bluegate:
If it were confirmed then you wouldn't have read it as a rumor, would you?

The best we can say with pretty much absolute certainty is that the PS5 will be backwards compatible with PS4 games.

Well, I thought some people might be more in the know than me that was all. I didn't know that PS4 compatibility was definitely confirmed so that's good anyway.

dscross:

bluegate:
If it were confirmed then you wouldn't have read it as a rumor, would you?

The best we can say with pretty much absolute certainty is that the PS5 will be backwards compatible with PS4 games.

Well, I thought some people might be more in the know than me that was all. I didn't know that PS4 compatibility was definitely confirmed so that's good anyway.

My first sentence was meant as a joke more than anything else.

This will sound like legalese, but I wouldn't call it "definitely confirmed" yet, it's just that it has been mentioned in interviews as being worked on and as being how the PS5 was designed.

dscross:
I'm sure there's been something on the forum about this before but I read some rumours that the PS5 will be backwards compatible with all previous PlayStation generations. Is this confirmed or does anyone have any insight? If this is true I'm getting it on launch.

There's no reason why PS5 couldn't have PS4 compatibility, same architecture. And, Sony has always done BC besides for PS4 (because of the PS3). So unless Sony just starts acting like dicks, PS5 will at least have PS4 BC (which has yet to be officially confirmed), the question is how much Sony and gamers really care for PS1/2 BC. PS3 BC will not be on the PS5 because it's hard as shit to emulate, current PC PS3 emulation is still a work in progress I believe.

Based on what I heard, they want ps4 compatibility because they wanna keep making ps4 games to take advantage of their huge install base.

I always wait a while before jumping on the next gen system unless they have some sort of must play exclusive so I'm completely fine with this.

At least the PS4 bc is pretty much confirmed, but it also sounds like there could be more. Will have to wait and see of course. Sony should be doing an official reveal soon. Spring is right around the corner already.

Yeah, compatible with PS4 since it's the same x86 architecture I believe so BC should be easy. Cell processor still can't be emulated and I can't imagine Sony increasing price of PS5 by having custom cell so people can play old PS3 games.

I have a bunch of PS1 to PS3 games and I skipped the PS4, so if a PS5 had PS1-4 BC would be pretty neat and I'd probably get one for to catch up on PS4 exclusives, any upcoming ones and the convenience of an all in one Playstation.

But I don't think it's going to happen. Just PS4 BC seems likely though.

stroopwafel:
Cell processor still can't be emulated and I can't imagine Sony increasing price of PS5 by having custom cell so people can play old PS3 games.

There is a promising working PS3 emulator though. RCPS3 has made impressive progress this last year or two and can run a fair amount of commercial games. You need a decent pc tho and compatibility/perfomance is still pretty hit or miss: some games don't boot at all, while some are playable start to finish and overall run better than the real hardware could ever manage.

So can PS3 be emulated right now? Yes. Well enough for inclusion in a commercial product? No.

Or at least, not by third party enthousiasts, talented though they may be. But Sony themselves probably can. They should have all the necessary resources. Do they want make the investment tho? Doubt it.

Chimpzy:
I have a bunch of PS1 to PS3 games and I skipped the PS4, so if a PS5 had PS1-4 BC would be pretty neat and I'd probably get one for to catch up on PS4 exclusives, any upcoming ones and the convenience of an all in one Playstation.

But I don't think it's going to happen. Just PS4 BC seems likely though.

stroopwafel:
Cell processor still can't be emulated and I can't imagine Sony increasing price of PS5 by having custom cell so people can play old PS3 games.

There is a promising working PS3 emulator though. RCPS3 has made impressive progress this last year or two and can run a fair amount of commercial games. You need a decent pc tho and compatibility/perfomance is still pretty hit or miss: some games don't boot at all, while some are playable start to finish and overall run better than the real hardware could ever manage.

So can PS3 be emulated right now? Yes. Well enough for inclusion in a commercial product? No.

Or at least, not by third party enthousiasts, talented though they may be. But Sony themselves probably can. They should have all the necessary resources. Do they want make the investment tho? Doubt it.

What's interesting is the PS2 also had very different architecture from PS3, and in the beginning there was a custom chip on the 3 to play both predecessors' games. They later took it out to save cost of course with Slim, but I'm wondering if emulation has gotten cheap enough now, along with Sony knowing all the hardwares inside and out that it could be possible.

As it is I remember some 5th and 6th gen games on the PS Japan store that were still playable on PS3 Slim, like Silent Hill 4. I'm thinking there's more to it than they're letting on, and will reserve a modicum of hope it'll happen.

hanselthecaretaker:

Chimpzy:
snip

What?s interesting is the PS2 also had very different architecture from PS3, and in the beginning there was a custom chip on the 3 to play both predecessors? games. They later took it out to save cost of course with Slim, but I?m wondering if emulation has gotten cheap enough now, along with Sony knowing all the hardwares inside and out that it could be possible. As it is I remember some games on the PS Japan store that were still playable on PS3 Slim, like Silent Hill 4.

I?m thinking there?s more to it than they?re letting on, and have a modicum of hope it?ll happen.

Ok, so, here's a breakdown of BC on PS3:

- All PS3 models have PS1 BC, though afaik this is done through emulation and not 100% compatible.
- The NTCS 20gb and 60gb fat launch models basically include all the essential PS2 hardware, including the Emotion Engine chipset. Iirc, it is fully compatible with all PS2 games.
- The PAL 20gb and 60gb fat launch models have partial hardware BC, lacking the Emotion Engine chipset, which is emulated instead . It has pretty good compatability. All notable games should run, some obscure ones may not.
- The 80gb fat model and some later limited edition 60gb models still had PS2 BC, though only software emulation, but this was patched out. Don't have any experience with its compatability.
- Slim or Super Slim models have no BC.

But ... any PS3 is still technically capable of PS2 BC by installing CFW and patching the software emulation back in. It's an involved clumsy process, and it locks you out of using PSN (you could get banned), tho that's probably not that big of an issue anymore.

But that PS3 > PS2 emulation is no good for PS5 for the same reasons shoving PCSX2 onto your PS4 won't work: not compatible with the hardware. Though when you buy one of those PS2 classics on PS4, you're not getting a port. It's more or less a dumped disc image in a custom software emulation wrapper. So a PS4 can at very least do PS2, Sony simply never bothered to develop a full-fledged general emulator.

Chimpzy:

hanselthecaretaker:

Chimpzy:
snip

What?s interesting is the PS2 also had very different architecture from PS3, and in the beginning there was a custom chip on the 3 to play both predecessors? games. They later took it out to save cost of course with Slim, but I?m wondering if emulation has gotten cheap enough now, along with Sony knowing all the hardwares inside and out that it could be possible. As it is I remember some games on the PS Japan store that were still playable on PS3 Slim, like Silent Hill 4.

I?m thinking there?s more to it than they?re letting on, and have a modicum of hope it?ll happen.

Ok, so, here's a breakdown of BC on PS3:

- All PS3 models have PS1 BC, though afaik this is done through emulation and not 100% compatible.
- The NTCS 20gb and 60gb fat launch models basically include all the essential PS2 hardware, including the Emotion Engine chipset. Iirc, it is fully compatible with all PS2 games.
- The PAL 20gb and 60gb fat launch models have partial hardware BC, lacking the Emotion Engine chipset, which is emulated instead . It has pretty good compatability. All notable games should run, some obscure ones may not.
- The 80gb fat model and some later limited edition 60gb models still had PS2 BC, though only software emulation, but this was patched out. Don't have any experience with its compatability.
- Slim or Super Slim models have no BC.

But ... any PS3 is still technically capable of PS2 BC by installing CFW and patching the software emulation back in. It's an involved clumsy process, and it locks you out of using PSN (you could get banned), tho that's probably not that big of an issue anymore.

But that PS3 > PS2 emulation is no good for PS5 for the same reasons shoving PCSX2 onto your PS4 won't work: not compatible with the hardware. Though when you buy one of those PS2 classics on PS4, you're not getting a port. It's more or less a dumped disc image in a custom software emulation wrapper. So a PS4 can at very least do PS2, Sony simply never bothered to develop a full-fledged general emulator.

There's got to be something still there though if the Slim line can still play whatever few PS1/2 titles are on the store. For example I made a Japanese PSN profile just so I could get Silent Hill 4 on the PS3. These are limited cases for sure, but almost like they retro-fitted certain titles for compatibility even after the true "emulation" guts were take out.

hanselthecaretaker:
There?s got to be something still there though if the Slim line can still play whatever few PS1/2 titles are on the store. For example I made a Japanese PSN profile just so I could get Silent Hill 4 on the PS3. These are limited cases for sure, but almost like they retro-fitted certain titles for compatibility even after the true ?emulation? guts were take out.

They have a PS2 emulator that is used for the PS2 Classics on PS3, regardless of model. You could even create your own "PS2 Classic" if you have a "jailbroken" PS3.

Not sure if the PS2 Classics that one downloads from the store are just a zipped ISO, or if they also come with a set of patches to make said game run properly with the emulator.

hanselthecaretaker:
I?m thinking there?s more to it than they?re letting on, and will reserve a modicum of hope it?ll happen.

If Sony had some super secret PS3 emulation, Naughty Dog wouldn't have wasted a good chuck of time rewriting the TLOU engine for the remaster.

Even if they did, they'd want to rewrite the engine because emulation will never perform as well as native code.

dscross:
I'm sure there's been something on the forum about this before but I read some rumours that the PS5 will be backwards compatible with all previous PlayStation generations. Is this confirmed or does anyone have any insight? If this is true I'm getting it on launch.

Because there's always rumors that the next-gen console will be backwards compatible. They don't mean anything at this point until the official reveal.

Phoenixmgs:

hanselthecaretaker:
I?m thinking there?s more to it than they?re letting on, and will reserve a modicum of hope it?ll happen.

If Sony had some super secret PS3 emulation, Naughty Dog wouldn't have wasted a good chuck of time rewriting the TLOU engine for the remaster.

They didn't have anything for PS4 nearly six years ago, but chances are higher they'd have something for PS5 now that could do something with pre-PS4 code. At least moreso than what's been done emulation-wise already.

hanselthecaretaker:
There?s got to be something still there though if the Slim line can still play whatever few PS1/2 titles are on the store. For example I made a Japanese PSN profile just so I could get Silent Hill 4 on the PS3. These are limited cases for sure, but almost like they retro-fitted certain titles for compatibility even after the true ?emulation? guts were take out.

I don't think it's a matter of whether Sony can give the PS5 BC for PS1-4. They likely could if they wanted to, but don't because making us buy all our favorite older games all over again as classics or remasters makes more money. PS4 BC is probably the best we'll get, because that will still be somewhat relevant for one or two years because of cross-gen games.

Chimpzy:

hanselthecaretaker:
There?s got to be something still there though if the Slim line can still play whatever few PS1/2 titles are on the store. For example I made a Japanese PSN profile just so I could get Silent Hill 4 on the PS3. These are limited cases for sure, but almost like they retro-fitted certain titles for compatibility even after the true "emulation" guts were take out.

I don't think it's a matter of whether Sony can give the PS5 BC for PS1-4. They likely could if they wanted to, but don't because making us buy all our favorite older games all over again as classics or remasters makes more money. PS4 BC is probably the best we'll get, because that will still be somewhat relevant for one or two years because of cross-gen games.

They also might be considering how it looks if Microsoft has full backwards compatibility and they only have one generation's worth. There's no way they'll be able to publicly spin that into a good thing.

There's no way PS5 will have PS3 BC, it's not technically possible.

Phoenixmgs:
There's no way PS5 will have PS3 BC, it's not technically possible.

Reading this thread I would conjecture that it is technically possible, what it isn't is economically feasible.

Gordon_4:

Phoenixmgs:
There's no way PS5 will have PS3 BC, it's not technically possible.

Reading this thread I would conjecture that it is technically possible, what it isn't is economically feasible.

Basically only half the games work on RCPS3, which has a recommended AMD CPU that is better than what the PS5 will have. How is the PS5 going to be able to emulate PS3 games? Even if there was a way to emulate every PS3 game, the PS5 hardware probably won't be powerful enough to even run everything.

Phoenixmgs:

Gordon_4:

Phoenixmgs:
There's no way PS5 will have PS3 BC, it's not technically possible.

Reading this thread I would conjecture that it is technically possible, what it isn't is economically feasible.

Basically only half the games work on RCPS3, which has a recommended AMD CPU that is better than what the PS5 will have. How is the PS5 going to be able to emulate PS3 games? Even if there was a way to emulate every PS3 game, the PS5 hardware probably won't be powerful enough to even run everything.

So yeah, it can be done but it is not economically feasible to do so because making the PS5 powerful enough would - by the sounds of it - double its price and basically be its own death warrant.

 

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