In Another Castle: Why do we hate games so much?

Okay, to start this off I'm going to quote myself from a different thread because, yes, I'm THAT important:

Me:
If you play Mario for the story, get bored during dialogue-heavy RPG cutscenes, whine about grinding in MMO's, and complain about resource management in RTS's...

You're doing it wrong!

So with that, I ask you... yes you:

Why do we hate the games we love so much? Why do we blast developers for putting in long story-heavy cutscenes in RPG's? Wouldn't that be like getting mad at a Heavy Metal Drummer for playing too fast? Why do we complain when platformers like Mario, or Mirror's Edge have crappy storylines? Hey, here's your storyline: "See that thing over there? Go run and jump toward it... let me know when you get there."

Now don't get me wrong, I think innovation is important. I always want to see NEW gameplay designs and be told great NEW stories; I hate cookie-cutter games (read: Devil May Cry/God of War/Dante's Inferno) quite a bit. I just think it's okay to see new innovation within the genre it's meant for. People blast games like Xenosaga or FFXIII for being too linear and cutscene heavy; they whine about the combat in Silent Hill; it's like everyone wants to play the game "their own way" without taking into the fact the type of game they're playing.

Mario games (that are actually Mario games) will always have you run around and jump on things. WWII shooters will always have you going after 'dem Nazzys with your trusty rifle and war buddies.

So what's the problem with that? Why not just judge based on how WELL the game does what it intended it to do?

Mass Effect is an RPG based on telling a STORY with some shooter elements thrown in... why blast it for not having space flight sequences or for the fact that the "Shooting is too simple." It's an RPG! Let it be an RPG... if you like shooters, but don't like RPG's... don't play it.

Just for fun, I want SquareEnix to remake Final Fantasy VII with the 16-bit Super Nintendo engine. I want to see the look on people's faces when their beloved silvery-maned badass son of a god is reduced down to mere pixel art. Then release it in a pack with FFIV and FFVI and see how well it stands up to RPG's that were made when story HAD to be the focal point because the graphics weren't strong enough to appeal to the A.D.D. kids who demand epic FMV battles, then complain about the fact you can't control them.

Next thing you know we're going to start judging the stories in our puzzle games.

(Pssst... hey!)

What?

(Portal.)

Shit >.<

portal's story almost lived up to the high standards of games like this: http://www.kongregate.com/games/Rete/dont-shit-your-pants

OT:
Everyone looks for different things in games, so no matter what the game, it will always be lacking in some respect.
It also seems to have a lot to do with the developer strangely, e.g. nobody ever complains about valve games, for some strange reason.

When I'm playing a game it is normally more important to me that I am enjoying it rather than second guessing what someone else might think about it. It was me who paid for it and is now spending time with it.

But it isn't like there is some process where expectations for games are built up to the sky so that many people who might not enjoy it are convinced to buy it. You might have a point.

I only hate bad games. Two Worlds is the perfect example on how not to make a game.

I don't remember ever doing that to be honest. Not that I love the games I like unquestionably, but I find if I bash them I start believing what I'm saying, and then I don't like the game anymore.

And surely we should try to like as many games as we can? Just to get your moneys worth, at least.

So I don't do that, thankfully. It just seems...weird.

I couldn't have put it any better myself.

I mainly hate bad games only if I paid for them (psychonuats, saints row pc port) becuase then they wasted my money, which is what actually annoys me,

It's similar to a mother's love: We want them to be the absolute best they can be, and it pains us to see them fall short of their potential.

Furburt:
I don't remember ever doing that to be honest. Not that I love the games I like unquestionably, but I find if I bash them I start believing what I'm saying, and then I don't like the game anymore.

And surely we should try to like as many games as we can? Just to get your moneys worth, at least.

So I don't do that, thankfully. It just seems...weird.

Right, just for future reference, it's about 97.3% likely that when I'm talking about "everyone" and "people" and making sweeping generalizations like that, I'm not including you sir. Consider that a compliment.

pantsoffdanceoff:
I mainly hate bad games only if I paid for them (psychonuats, saints row pc port) becuase then they wasted my money, which is what actually annoys me,

Psychonauts couldn't decide what it wanted to be... I found myself laughing out loud at the dialogue, but being mad it made me play through a shoddy platformer to listen to it.

It's exactly that kind of schizophrenic game that is the result of the attitudes talked about in the original post.

In interviews the guys behind Stalin versus Martians said that the game was supposed to be retardedly bad, would you say that game was good since the developers had a intention of making a shitty game?

Pantsoffdanceoff, I absolutely agree. When I pay for something I expect to like it, even though it`s my fault that I don`t.

SavingPrincess:

Right, just for future reference, it's about 97.3% likely that when I'm talking about "everyone" and "people" and making sweeping generalizations like that, I'm not including you sir. Consider that a compliment.

Oh good. Being generalized is somewhat demoralizing.

SavingPrincess:
It's exactly that kind of schizophrenic game that is the result of the attitudes talked about in the original post.

It's funny, because the gaming community itself is a little schizo. Perhaps not all, but a large portion of communities seem to follow a mould. Someone out there will glance over something about in a forum or on a website and spew it up all over the place, without having played it. But hell, should they play it and enjoy it they'll spin on a dime.

Does everyone remember all the hype and anticipation for MW2, then all the hate it got slammed in it's face? It's because everyone wants something different. I for one always find myself complaining that Developers never listen to their fans, never try to make anyone happy. I'm starting to think that they're just trying to make everyone happy and failing for it.

I could've complained about Final Fantasy VII having horrible graphics and grindy gameplay, I could've complained that Bioshock didn't have enough RPG planning and character advancement in, I could've complained that Madden is just a game for idiot jocks who've never bought any other game in their life, but I was so blown away by the story of Final Fantasy VII and the atmosphere of Bioshock to even care, Madden... not so much.

I think the problem is the grasp of consumerism on society and how it has us all demanding a better product no matter how good it is. Critics don't much help either. People always seem to take critics reviews as negative means buy and positive means do buy, critics are supposed to review games on their artistic merit and I think frankly if they don't point out the bad points in a game they're not a very good critic. Then again I live in England where complaining about things is our culture, so maybe my view doesn't really count.

I don't hate videogames, I'm just sometimes hard to please and love to complain.

Though, there are some really, really, really BAD games out there.

Then there are good games that can be ruined with one or more silly, totally unnessecary and arbitrary mechanic. Let's use Legend of Dragoon for an example. A well-written, well-voiced (imo) and more or less really fun JRPG overall, but it's got that ONE mechanic in it that will keep me from ever playing it again... that silly "Press X to hit harder...now!...no, not now!" combat "Interaction" system.

Well, it's interesting. I think sometimes players complain about things like the combat in Silent Hill, it's a different kind of complaint to the ones about extremely long cutscenes. I don't think the majority of players are game designers, and often we don't think too deeply into the mechanics or reason the cutscenes are as long as they are. It's a videogame afterall, which means that everything in it was programmed and modelled and that good stuff, so it is intentional, but I'm not saying it's all good ideas.
Combat in Silent Hill frustrates me, but I think it's because I've become used to being able to take on damn well anything courtesy of games like Resident Evil 4. I don't think either game is doing what they do poorly, they're different experiences. Silent Hill 4, which I'm currently playing, has that crappy combat, but I understand it, and it works for survival horror. If I could take on anything I wanted, the game would only be able to get startle scares out of me, and even those wouldn't be great in Silent Hill.
The Cutscenes sit on the opposite end of the spectrum. They can be fine if they're long, depending on the game, your interest in what's being said, and how well the dialogue is written. For instance, I played a game called Tales of the Abyss a while ago. I loved the Tales games before, and have turned my back on them now, because of the main character. There are so many repetitive and tedious cutscenes of him being a little whining bitch that I couldn't take it. About halfway through the game he cuts off most of his hair and says he's going to be a different person from now on (Spoiler Alert), but that doesn't change shit. He continues to whine back and worth with this other character, who just yells back at him, for about five cutscenes in a row. It was annoying in the first one, it didn't need to be repeated at all, but there you go.

The worst example I find for this is MGS4. People you know it has long cutscenes, if you don't want to watch them skip them and if you want Kojima to tell a complex story, you can't do that in short cutscenes. If you know that something is a staple of the genere/series you should know what to expect.

Daymo:
The worst example I find for this is MGS4. People you know it has long cutscenes, if you don't want to watch them skip them and if you want Kojima to tell a complex story, you can't do that in short cutscenes. If you know that something is a staple of the genere/series you should know what to expect.

Having just recently played through that game myself, I have to agree. I enjoyed it start to finish, long cutscenes and all. I knew what I was getting into, and wouldn't have wanted anything less.

I just hate being dissapointed after spending cash on a game. I tend to agree tho, don't expect more than the minimum requirements to fit a genre. But some games I just really didn't like. FFXIII is a good example. It's not that it's linear, I mean I loved Skies of Arcadia Legends, and that game is almost as linear for the first half (dungeons especially). But the fact that the game basically plays itself is just... bad. No towns - instead you have some sort of anti gravity digital kiosks that apparently teleport in whatever you order. A shitty upgrading system that somehow upgrades my swords or guns or boomerangs or staves with fangs and slime. The chrysarium was BS, just as linear as the levels. Only "controlling" one character and using auto battle... Absolutely minimum character equipment, and almost none of it was useful (or at least needed). I gave the game about 30 or 35hours and I had fun for about 2 of them - the rare boss fights. The rest of the time, spamming X got me by.

A game that was infinitely less dissapointing but still dissapointed me is God of War 3. I certianly expected the gameplay and all that which was ok, but I didn't like that it was so small. I mean how many times do I have to go through the same hades level? Also, didn't like the ending. Oh and the fact that all 4 main weapons were the same thing. Otherwise it was alright.

I bought The Witcher a while back expecting an epic RPG, and instead I got... a dating sim? Well, ok, not quite. But the game was fairly dry, you really had to look for fun. I ended up enjoying the dice poker the most, that and browsing my "special cards" ;). Anyway, for such a highly rated game I found it pretty mediocre.

Those are just a few, but then there's some games that I really really enjoyed like Heavy Rain and Demon's Souls and I just got STALKER Call of Pripyat, first STALKER game for me and I'm really liking it so far.

 

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