Will The Elder Scrolls Online end the same way as Swtor?

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

So I read a preview for TESO ( http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/22/massivelys-hands-on-with-the-elder-scrolls-online/ ) and it actually sounds pretty fun, and when I looked to see if it had a sub fee, to my dismay, I found that it will indeed have a sub fee.

I feel like it will end the same way as Swtor, lots of promise, but then the name of the game not able to sell players enough. Now granted while TESO is indeed less of a WoW clone then Swtor was, I don't feel the name Elder Scrolls will grab enough people, more so that there are already so many divided on the issue.

Then there is GW2, now I am not saying which game is better (how could I? TESO is still over a year from release, plus they haven't even hit Beta) but now with GW2 hitting high sales and already new content coming out in November, I feel many will look at P2P in a worse light. People will also then wonder why they would play TESO, when they could play GW2, lots of the high quality F2P games now coming out, or just play Skyrim, Morrowind, or Oblivion and just mod the hell out of it and save a lot of money.

Thoughts?

Well, elder scrolls Online is using mega server technology to remove all forms of "shards" so even if the game tanks they wont have to close/merge servers, since everyone plays in the same map anyways.

I don't expect it to last long as a P2P mmo, but when it tanks it wont be as hard as ToR.

SajuukKhar:
Well, elder scrolls Online is using mega server technology to remove all forms of "shards" so even if the game tanks they wont have to close/merge servers, since everyone plays in the same map anyways.

I don't expect it to last long as a P2P mmo, but when it tanks it wont be as hard as ToR.

True, I also doubt it has the same budget which is what allowed ToR to fail so hard...

Since its not by the same creators of the previous ES games and cannot deliver hardly any new innovation yea it gonna tank.The thing that they must not forget is to give a free 10d-trial after the stress of the launch,Rift got my vote that way.
The thing i am afraid about this mmo is that it will ruin the lore of the games and provide the same bag of tricks quest like any mmo and no epic quest as u skip through thousands pages of text meaning nothing to most mmo players.
Most mmo player's mentality is 1)get there first 2)get OP 3)show off 4)cry when someone beat u

Just my guess, but it doesn't stand a chance with a subscription. It could be a decent game, but I won't play it with a subscription.

Captcha: "love you"; love you too captcha.

I actually think it will, but might last longer before the inevitable change to F2P.

SajuukKhar:

I don't expect it to last long as a P2P mmo, but when it tanks it wont be as hard as ToR.

Pretty much agree with this.

I'd also wager that sales will be pretty slow for the first week or two, as die hard ES players will be cautious, and there would be only a sprinkling of interest from the more casual market.

I'll be watching on with passing interest, but won't be buying.

Subscription fee? NOPE!! I was willing to try it if it was a f2p but seeing as it is subscrption based I am going to pass on it.

captcha: fade away, yes captcha that is exactly what TESO is going to do.

Honestly, we still don't know enough about it to judge how well it's going to do. At first, this game was looking like a generic WoW-clone, but now that doesn't appear to be the case. So I really don't know. Personally, I do think it still looks a bit too much like other MMOs and not enough like the Elder Scrolls, but who knows how much that will change.

Still, I can say almost certainly that this game would do better without a subscription fee. I think something more akin to Guild Wars 2's payment method (just buy the game, no sub fee) would work really well. However, it should be noted that Rift has been fairly successful as a subscription game, so it is possible for a subscription game to make money in this day and age. But really, we'll have to wait until it's out to decide for sure.

Could go either way. It's got the brand recognition, the game engine looks vastily superior to TOR, there seem to be a lot of new gameplay mechanics (ultimate attacks, etc.) and the art style/enemy variation looks to be the usual high-quality work.

Downsides: judging from the preview, it looks like Skyrim, apparently plays and feels like Skyrim, and you have to pay a subscription fee every month on top of it. If I wanted that experience, I'd just go play Skyrim w/ mods.

I think the way of subscription fees really only works with WoW now, and its only because they have such a dedicated fanbase that has put so much work into their characters, that to stop paying and lose all that would be difficult. Guild Wars 2 has shown that a quality MMO can survive, and even thrive, without extorting the consumers for $15 a month or whatever subscriptions cost now. I really want TESO to do well, but i highly, highly doubt it will last much longer than SWToR did, and that game had even more hype surrounding it than this game. But we'll see, as OP said, it's still a bit too far out to call out what will happen.

iirc, EVE has 700k subscribers and it is a successful pay2play mmo. If that is the bar, then there is no reason it won't be a success.

If, however, they are like EA and are looking for 5+ million subs, they're fucked.

To be honest, I disagree. I think it will do worse than SWTOR did. Maybe not far off what happened to APB? The thing is even though it has the words TES in the title and a similar look to the games and has all the content in it to make it look like a TES game, it just isn't. From what I've read about it, there's a lot of stuff being put in that will most likely put off a lot of TES fans (taking out free-flow combat for example and placing less importance on your character). I just have a feeling that even if they work really hard on it and everything it's going end up tanking and not even stick around to be a F2P.

Also P2P stuff has never really been seen in anything but a bad light. ("What! I have to pay $60 for this game as well as $10-15 per month!!!" *Grumble, Grumble forks over cash*)

Korten12:
Now granted while TESO is indeed less of a WoW clone then Swtor was...

Wait what?

Nile McMorrow:

Korten12:
Now granted while TESO is indeed less of a WoW clone then Swtor was...

Wait what?

Considering it's class system is a lot more free form, and it's combat plays like Skyrim, whereas Swtor played a lot like Wow, hell even when you killed enemies, the xp color was purple (a nitpick but kind of a coicendance.)

Depends on how much money is being thrown at the project. Problem with a game like The Old Republic is that publishers and developers invested so much into the project, tens of millions of dollars, that nothing short of ground-breaking success is an option just in order to try and make that investment back, nevermind actually turn a profit.

Just think, TOR right now has what, maybe 500k subscribers? That's a ton of money every month. But again because of how much they spent just to make the damned game it's still not enough to be considered a success and so the game is floundering as a result.

So as for this MMO it all comes down to how well it's managed.

Nile McMorrow:
To be honest, I disagree. I think it will do worse than SWTOR did. Maybe not far off what happened to APB?

Look, I don't think this game will be a runaway hit either, but there is no way in hell it's going to do anywhere near as badly as APB. APB couldn't last three months, and when it went down, it took down the entire studio that made it. This happened because it was a completely shitty game. I would guess that the only reason the free to play version is alive at all is because the company that bought the rights to convert it to a free to play game invested so little into it.

TESO just looks generic and not faithful to the gameplay of the series. Not great by any means, but still not close to the utter shit that APB was. I will be the first to admit that my prediction could be wrong, and it could be much better or worse than I expect. Still, there is no way this game won't have some redeeming value to it, unlike APB.

At worst, this game is probably going to be along the lines of the Secret World in terms of success. Doesn't do nearly as well as hoped, and seriously hurts the company, but has enough dedicated fans that it's not a complete failure. Honestly, I don't even think it will do that bad, but that's just pure speculation.

NO!

SWTOR was actually successful. Or at least it will have been comparatively so.

You mean suffer, crash and burn?
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuup. No doubt about it.

Will it end up the same way that LOTRO did? Will it end up the same way that SWTOR did? Will it end up the same way that Age of Conan, Aion et al did? Will it end up like WoW has ended up?

yes.

This game will ruin my experience of TES forever. Skyrim wasn't fun but I always had hopes that they might improve on it with the next title. But This is going to up-f*ck it.

MMOs have passed us by. WoW got everything that could be got out of the market, and now it's a wrung sponge. No game will ever be as widely addictive as Vanilla WoW was, and no game will ever have the artifacts of older technology that WoW had - abilities to find paths to areas you weren't intended to access, abilities to jump up columns etc to access the Ironforge bank.

In short, from this point on, games will always be too sterile, games will always have the same control scheme, games will also have the same quest framework, games will always cut the same corners, developers will always promise the world but end up giving us a WoW clone. It's over.

It's over!

MMOs are dead, and if Bethesda wanted to exploit them they should have made Oblivion an MMO.. and made it f*cking good.

To paraphrase Yahtzee, "I hate people." If I want to go on an epic adventure, I want to be the only one doing it. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and NV, I love them because I can go at my own pace, do as I please, and just have a good time about it. I don't have to worry about someone twenty levels higher than me coming up and killing me "for teh lulz," or having to team up (*shudder*) to take on some big boss monster in a cave somewhere. I see the logic behind TESO, but at the same time, it's illogical because TES games were built on a single-player adventure. KOTOR had two amazing single-player games, and then TOR crashed and burned, as OP said. Some people like multi-player, and good for them. I'm not one, and if the TES franchise is damaged by this attempt at an MMO, I'm going to be quite irritated.

And to end this rant, I think the folks behind STO could essentially take the storyline of the game, polish it (significantly), upgrade the graphics (and fix the ground missions), flesh out your Bridge Officers a little more, and make a pretty decent single-player game. Because the "MMO" aspect only exists for: a) annoying "Fleet" missions, b) broken PvP, and c) seeing other captains running about.

I have a bad feeling that it may end-up like more of a SWTOR clone in terms of missions and story.

I haven't had any confidence in this game since it was announced.

BoogityBoogityMan:
iirc, EVE has 700k subscribers and it is a successful pay2play mmo. If that is the bar, then there is no reason it won't be a success.

If, however, they are like EA and are looking for 5+ million subs, they're fucked.

EVE has the market advantage of filling a niche in demand. It's a heavily economy-driven space exploration sandbox. For all intents and purposes it seems like TESO is Skyrim with people and a monthly subscription. This should be worrying to Zenimax as this model is precisely why SWTOR failed; it was just KOTOR III with other people and a subscription fee.

It gets doubly troubling for Zenimax, TES draws most of its appeal based around setting and immersion. It's hard to do either well when there are going to be thousands of little Shezzarines running around Tamriel or waiting in a que for a quest mob to respawn, or competing with the other Listeners of the Dark Brotherhood for your next target.

I'm not sure TES would even lend itself well to multiplayer let alone an MMO. If Zenimax is so keen on trying though a better idea would be cities acting as central hubs with instances created when you step outside...and no subscription fee.

The two classes available in this build of the game were the Dragon Knight and the Templar.

I don't get this, not one bit. I'm all for taking the next TES game back to the class system but why invent your own? We already have established classes that exist within the canon lore, it wouldn't take much tweaking to balance them for an MMO. It seems to me that they're performing unnecessary legwork and the only reason they could be doing that is because they feel they have to. My guess at this point in time is because they feel they need classes which can easily fit into the Holy Trinity.

The Dragon Knight was described as a front-line fighter with reality-altering magic, while the Templar was more or less what you'd expect from a class called the Templar: magic, support, that kind of thing.

Ok that tells me very little about the classes; the battlemage, crusader, knight, spellsword, and warrior were all "front-line" fighters and four of those had access to "reality-altering magic.

So with that in mind, I chose the Dragon Knight because the description mentioned altering reality, and I'm a sucker for the Alteration school of magic.

I'm unamused by your blatant pandering to TES fans, by it's very nature all magic is reality altering so there's no reason to assume off-hand that this refers specifically to the alternation school. Oh who am I kidding, it probably does.

My Dragon Knight's first ultimate ability (I was told that players can unlock different ultimates as they progress through the game) was called Dragon Armor, and when activated, it gave me a sweet set of spiky armor that caused fire damage to any enemies within proximity. All of the abilities I was given access to had pretty high "wow" factors. My personal favorite was Fiery Reach, which shot a flaming chain to my target, pulled him to me, and stunned him momentarily so I could take my leisurely time in laying the smack down.

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! I am not going to get excited for this no matter how hard you try because that is a fuck-obvious tank! Earlier suspicions confirmed; they're inventing new classes because they need to shove them into the same tired holy trinity of tank, dps, healer but the existing classes don't lend themselves well to that. I'm taking bets right now, the Templar class is going to turn out to be paladin-like DPS with a healing gimmick.

denseWorm:

MMOs are dead, and if Bethesda wanted to exploit them they should have made Oblivion an MMO.. and made it f*cking good.

ugh....
for the 50 millionth bazillionth time... IT ISNT BETHESDA.

It was the decision of Zenimax, Bethesda's parent company.

Politeia:
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! I am not going to get excited for this no matter how hard you try because that is a fuck-obvious tank! Earlier suspicions confirmed; they're inventing new classes because they need to shove them into the same tired holy trinity of tank, dps, healer but the existing classes don't lend themselves well to that. I'm taking bets right now, the Templar class is going to turn out to be paladin-like DPS with a healing gimmick.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6819/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-The-Comprehensive-Preview.html

Add this all together, the fact that every class can use every weapon or armor, the many different spells and abilities and their morphs, and even the points you spend on Magicka, Health, and Stamina... well, you get the picture. Matt and team informed us that while there are "heals, DPS, and tanks", every class can take on every role with the progression system and the armor and weapons. It's just a matter of switching out your loadout and you're good to go.

It sounds pretty Guild Wars 2ish, every class can play every role yet some classes will still be better at it then others.

Kinda like how...... Elder Scrolls classes always played, yeah you could heal as a warrior, but you would suck at it compared to a mage.

Yes, all subscriptions MMOs are automatic fail. WoW only survives because people started playing before everyone realized P2P was a scam and just continue to do so. WoW got is hooks in before P2P died.

And going free doesn't help a P2P game. It was developed with a subscription model in mind, so even after it goes free its still a pointless grind to get you $15.

Heres a mad idea, why don't we wait till we have seen someone play this or have done it ourselfs before hateing on it. I really do not understand where all this hate is coming from.

If Zenimax do this their job and are smart about it they can make their money before this tanks. Although, if it plays anything like a TES game I won't touch it with a barge pole.

SajuukKhar:

denseWorm:

MMOs are dead, and if Bethesda wanted to exploit them they should have made Oblivion an MMO.. and made it f*cking good.

ugh....
for the 50 millionth bazillionth time... IT ISNT BETHESDA.

It was the decision of Zenimax, Bethesda's parent company.

Decision of? :P lol... What's that supposed to mean?

Anyways, if it's not Bethesda that's fine. It's still TES and it doesn't change the gyst of my post: An MMO will never work.

well... not if they take the GW approach to MMOs... but that's my oppinion... P2P is a thing of the past now...

denseWorm:

Decision of? :P lol... What's that supposed to mean?

Anyways, if it's not Bethesda that's fine. It's still TES and it doesn't change the gyst of my post: An MMO will never work.

As in, it was Zenimax's decision to make the MMO? Not Bethesda's? is that hard for you to understand?

I think Guild Wars 2 kinda invalidates all the things you said about MMORPGs.

SajuukKhar:

for the 50 millionth bazillionth time... IT ISNT BETHESDA.

It was the decision of Zenimax, Bethesda's parent company.

Zenimax is Bethesda. It's a shell company created by Bethesda's founder to hold the Bethesda studio, the Bethesda publishing arm and the acquisitions (Arkane, id etc.).

SajuukKhar:
ugh....
for the 50 millionth bazillionth time...


As in, it was Zenimax's decision to make the MMO? Not Bethesda's? is that hard for you to understand?

I think Guild Wars 2 kinda invalidates all the things you said about MMORPGs.

"Hard to understand"? "ugh"? Simmer down, pal, not too sure why you're being so insistent and combative about this but it's not very inviting, I've not spoken to you before so stop questioning my intelligence.

I was referring to the word 'decision', when I asked what you meant. I didn't know why you chose to say "It's Zeminax's decision" rather than "Zenimax is making it", for all I know you're just saying "Bethesda are making it... because Zeminax decided they should" or something... Sounds like some doublespeak Mitt Romney would come up with. I haven't read any articles, I don't know the whole story, but when you use a weird-ass word like "decision" I don't know what you might be talking about.

Anyways, good point re: Guild Wars 2. I haven't played the game, I played WoW back in the day, and preferred it's open world. I don't play any MMOs anymore but the last one I played was TOR and that confirmed to me very clearly that, unless there's a very strong framework in place like there was with Guild Wars 2 (there was one for WoW but they've still managed to fuck the game up for the past four years) that any new AAA MMO was going to be a grey'd out mish mash of crap.

I've been saying this since TESO was announced and will continue to say it: "This is a terrible idea!" The Elder Scrolls games have all been catering to the fact that your character is "The One", you are the Nerravarine, you are The Hero of Kvatch, you are The Dragon Born and that is what its all about, being the Stalwart hero of the land.

If you make it an MMO though suddenly what used to be a game where you were the main focus and everyone was amazed at your ability to kill dragons or survive super diseases or find a princely needle in a haystack to give an amulet to, now you are just one of many little derp sticks roaming around the land of Tamriel being mediocre instead of the dragon stomper.

All in all, I won't be buying this game and wish those that are a good luck with it, I'd love to be wrong about this but I just don't think I am. -shrug-

denseWorm:

"Hard to understand"? "ugh"? Simmer down, pal, not too sure why you're being so insistent and combative about this but it's not very inviting, I've not spoken to you before so stop questioning my intelligence.

I was referring to the word 'decision', when I asked what you meant. I didn't know why you chose to say "It's Zeminax's decision" rather than "Zenimax is making it", for all I know you're just saying "Bethesda are making it... because Zeminax decided they should" or something... Sounds like some doublespeak Mitt Romney would come up with. I haven't read any articles, I don't know the whole story, but when you use a weird-ass word like "decision" I don't know what you might be talking about.

Anyways, good point re: Guild Wars 2. I haven't played the game, I played WoW back in the day, and preferred it's open world. I don't play any MMOs anymore but the last one I played was TOR and that confirmed to me very clearly that, unless there's a very strong framework in place like there was with Guild Wars 2 (there was one for WoW but they've still managed to fuck the game up for the past four years) that any new AAA MMO was going to be a grey'd out mish mash of crap.

Actually we have spoken before... several times.

I said its Zenimax's decision because
1. It is their decision
2. Zenimax isn't making it, Zenimax Online is
3. Blaming Bethesda for Zenimax getting another company to make a Elder Scrolls MMO is like blaming Bioware because EA made some other company make a Mass Effect MMO.

And as much as I doubt the MMO will be good, i see a tanking in the near future after it is released, the game could be good. It uses a weird hybrid of the single player TES games combat along with some GW2 actiony elements and limited skill bars thrown in there.

That combined with the TES style emphasis on exploration, which many articles have pointed out does exist, could make the MMO just unique enough to not feel the same as everything else.

It wont be GW2 good, but I don't think its gonna be another WoW clone.

I actually like the look of this now, it's looking much better than I thought and I would buy this. However im completely put off by the P2P, I really like the sound of it but im not going to get ripped off by a subscription model just to play it.

If they drop the subscription model then I would easily play this though.

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked