Ganon is Muslim

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From Wikipedia (several other sources have confirmed this):

Later versions of Ocarina of Time featured minor alterations in the final build of the game after its initial release. These alterations included the removal of a Muslim chant in the background music of the Fire Temple and the moon and star symbol that was on the Mirror Shield and other objects scattered throughout the game (signs, blocks, etc) for their Islamic references. The moon and star symbols were replaced with more generic ones. Ganondorf's blood was also altered from red to green.[31]

I always suspected this because of the desert stages and vaguely religious iconography, though it's interesting to see it confirmed. This tidbit of information would also suggest that OoT's narrative and styling is partially based upon the Medieval era, and more specifically the tensions between Christendom and the 'Saracens'. Anyone suspect Hyrule might be analagous to the European frontiers?

Also: apparently, Japanese xenophobia is largely directed at Iranians. WTF?

EzraPound:
From Wikipedia:

Later versions of Ocarina of Time featured minor alterations in the final build of the game after its initial release. These alterations included the removal of a Muslim chant in the background music of the Fire Temple and the moon and star symbol that was on the Mirror Shield and other objects scattered throughout the game (signs, blocks, etc) for their Islamic references. The moon and star symbols were replaced with more generic ones. Ganondorf's blood was also altered from red to green.[31]

I always suspected this because of the desert stages and vaguely religious iconography, though it's interesting to see it confirmed. This tidbit of information would also suggest that OoT's narrative and styling is partially based upon the Medieval era, and more specifically the tensions between Christendom and the 'Saracens'.

Also: apparently, Japanese xenophobia is largely directed at Iranians. WTF?

Or it's just the design choices of the team. They might have just like the symbols.

Keyword: 'Wikipedia'

You should always take wikinformation with a handful of salt, you know.

Keyword: 'Wikipedia'

You should always take wikinformation with a handful of salt, you know.

It's not just Wikipedia; I read a similar thing on IGN the other day, and remember owning a copy of OoT where the moon and star symbols were visible.

Or it's just the design choices of the team. They might have just like the symbols.

Though the plot is obviously an extremely loose interpretation of Medieval themes, I would differ with you about it being random: Ganon is from a desert that is clearly a stylistic homage to the Middle East, for example, and it seems unlikely that both those symbols and a Muslim prayer chant would be featured in the game.

Cheesus333:
Keyword: 'Wikipedia'

You should always take wikinformation with a handful of salt, you know.

It would be a funny discovery if it turns out to be real.

EzraPound:

Also: apparently, Japanese xenophobia is largely directed at Iranians. WTF?

In my experiences more or less every nation is pretty damn racist or xenophobic as a whole. Except for Canada and the UK. One doesn't need to look for very long at Japanese media to find a wonderful host of black stereotypes that would make a gollywog blush.

It would be a funny discovery if it turns out to be real.

It is real. Several sources confirm it.

Also, a quick google search would suggest 'Ganon' is an actual name used in the Middle East. And the Christian Holy Trinity obviously resembles the Triforce.

EzraPound:
remember owning a copy of OoT where the moon and star symbols were visible.

The moon and stars are common in a lot mof things, aren't they? Maybe Gonondorf is an eager astronomer. Or maybe he designs symbols to represent cookie-cutter shapes. I mean who doesn't like cookies!?

The moon and stars are common in a lot mof things, aren't they? Maybe Gonondorf is an eager astronomer. Or maybe he designs symbols to represent cookie-cutter shapes. I mean who doesn't like cookies!?

To anyone who's studied Islamic or Medieval history it's not random, man. Like I said:

1) Ganon is from a desert region resembling the Middle East
2) OoT originally featured a Muslim prayer chant and moon and stars symbols
3) Ganon is a Middle Eastern name
4) The Triforce resembles the Holy Trinity
5) The 'good' parts of Hyrule all resemble Medieval Europe

And there's alot more, too. Now tell me those are all 'coincidences'...

P.S. Both Hylians and Gerudos worship Din, too, which is analagous to how both Christians and Muslims theoretically worship the same god. And you're telling me this isn't a Mid-East homage?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/Gerudo.JPG

The Japanese like putting religious symbolism in their media. What's that anime where they fire lasers shaped like the cross? They do it because it's exotic, not to make a statement.

The Mirror Shield has nothing to do with Gannon (does it?). I think the Dev team looked towards desert images for inspiration when creating characters that come from the desert such as the star and moon (from the Turkish flag I believe). He's not "Muslim". He just shares similarities with Arabic culture.

It's not like the Kokori are Druids and the Hyrulians are Christian.

The Japanese like putting religious symbolism in their media. What's that anime where they fire lasers shaped like the cross? They do it because it's exotic, not to make a statement.

I never implied they were trying to make a statement; they were presumably just looking for good characterization, though it does suggest a subtle historical bias in favour of western culture over Islamic.

The Mirror Shield has nothing to do with Gannon (does it?).

You attain it in the Spirit Temple in the desert where the Gerudos live; so yeah, it does.

I think the Dev team looked towards desert images for inspiration when creating characters that come from the desert such as the star and moon (from the Turkish flag I believe). He's not "Muslim". He just shares similarities with Arabic culture.

It's not like the Kokori are Druids and the Hyrulians are Christian.

Well, duh. I didn't mean that Ganon prays five times to Allah every day when he's not out kicking Hylan a*s, I just meant that the characters and factions in OoT are vaguely allegorical to real, historical ones.

By the way, the moon and stars are don't just symbolize Turkey, but historic Islamic empires in the same way as, say, the cross symbolizes Christianity (though it's important to distinguish between the former's political usage and the latter's spiritual).

EzraPound:

The Japanese like putting religious symbolism in their media. What's that anime where they fire lasers shaped like the cross? They do it because it's exotic, not to make a statement.

I never implied they were trying to make a statement; they were presumably just looking for good characterization, though it does suggest a subtle historical bias in favour of western culture over Islamic.

Right, my bad.
Although, I find it funny that you call the Gerudos Muslim when they're all scantily clad ninja pirate women.

EzraPound:

Also: apparently, Japanese xenophobia is largely directed at Iranians. WTF?

Lawl, Xenophobia. How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Japanese are terrified of foreigners from that?

Lawl, Xenophobia. How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Japanese are terrified of foreigners from that?

It's no mystery Japan's fairly xenophobic, or that China, Korea, and Iran tend to be at the butt end of most of their cultural quips. That said, I wouldn't describe OoT as 'racist' by any stretch or even directly suggestive of Japanese bias: quasi-historic settings are fine, and whatever Muslim groups forced Nintendo to revise OoT's first run are clearly loony.

I thought I read somewhere that the chants in the Fire temple are Hebrew, not Islamic.

And since when do Muslims have green blood?

EzraPound:

The Mirror Shield has nothing to do with Gannon (does it?).

You attain it in the Spirit Temple in the desert where the Gerudos live; so yeah, it does.

I think the Dev team looked towards desert images for inspiration when creating characters that come from the desert such as the star and moon (from the Turkish flag I believe). He's not "Muslim". He just shares similarities with Arabic culture.

It's not like the Kokori are Druids and the Hyrulians are Christian.

Well, duh. I didn't mean that Ganon prays five times to Allah every day when he's not out kicking Hylan a*s, I just meant that the characters and factions in OoT are vaguely allegorical to real, historical ones.

By the way, the moon and stars are don't just symbolize Turkey, but historic Islamic empires in the same way as, say, the cross symbolizes Christianity (though it's important to distinguish between the former's political usage and the latter's spiritual).

The mirror sheild does not have much to do with ganon cause if you played the other games then you would understand that. The mirror sheild is in the other games. Also the whole culture thing is a load of crap. Think about it, in OoT there is a forest area, a green plains area, a desert area, a snowy area, a water area, a lava area, a mountain area and an undead area. Just because there is a desert area does not mean that they are wanting it to be islamic.

It's peoples sub consious that plays a big part in this as if you think about the whole religion issue then you will obviously see links and things relating to it. It's like how sometimes you look at a pattern and you think you see a face or something but nobody else sees it and you can't seem to shake it.

Cheesus333:

EzraPound:
remember owning a copy of OoT where the moon and star symbols were visible.

The moon and stars are common in a lot mof things, aren't they? Maybe Gonondorf is an eager astronomer. Or maybe he designs symbols to represent cookie-cutter shapes. I mean who doesn't like cookies!?

The star and moon are symbols of the more old desert civilizations (Saracens, Egyptians, Arabs).

You can find it more recently in the Turkish flag. It has been there for ages, i don't know if you're playing the devils advocate or not but it makes tons of sense.

I thought I read somewhere that the chants in the Fire temple are Hebrew, not Islamic.

And since when do Muslims have green blood?

a) I listened to an .mp3 of the chant and it clearly sounds Arabic.

b) The green blood was added in the revised cartridge. Though I suspect all Muslims have green blood, anyway.

EzraPound:
Well, duh. I didn't mean that Ganon prays five times to Allah every day when he's not out kicking Hylan a*s, I just meant that the characters and factions in OoT are vaguely allegorical to real, historical ones.

A lot of games draw inspiration from history, the arts and fiction. Ocarina of Time isn't the only one. There are many characters from fiction that you could say are "Muslim" even though they more than likely follow a different religion, such as Gannon/Gannondorf.

EzraPound:
By the way, the moon and stars are don't just symbolize Turkey, but historic Islamic empires in the same way as, say, the cross symbolizes Christianity (though it's important to distinguish between the former's political usage and the latter's spiritual).

I had only ever seen it on the flag, I've never seen it anywhere else but I suppose it isn't surprising that is stretches back through Muslim history.

Well, Muslim acinet culture is bad-ass, with all the deserts, that cool cloth thing that they put on their mouths, and insted of all those knights rush to battle like idiots, the arad warriors stealthly run around in the desret, and were your not looking, theres an arrow prieced in your head!
...
But Now when I think about it, the only thing that relates from ganon in my list are the desert, and you never really fight him in one.

What's wrong with this. We've had a crack at the Soviets (Red Alert), the Nazis (everyone and their brother), pseudo-Nazis (Killzone), pseudo-Russkies (Freedom Fighter)....why not have a go at another repressive, violent system- religion!

And no, this is not sarcasm. It's me thinking 'Fair enough, 13thC Islam had quite a bit of cool worth stealing'

Oh yes and ancient arabic cultures were kick ass.

C'mon they gave you maths!

....on the second thought no, FUCK THEM! >_<

And no, this is not sarcasm. It's me thinking 'Fair enough, 13thC Islam had quite a bit of cool worth stealing'

I think it's good, too. I wish there were more games with historic themes (or vaguely historic themes) as opposed to derivative sci-fi or fantasy ones. Why not a melee MMOG set to the Trojan War? A Far Cry/Morrowind hybrid about the settlement of North America? The 'FPS' concept should break from solely gun-based games, too, to perhaps encompass historic conflicts (you can shoot a bow and arrow, can't you?).

EzraPound:

And no, this is not sarcasm. It's me thinking 'Fair enough, 13thC Islam had quite a bit of cool worth stealing'

I think it's good, too. I wish there were more games with historic themes (or vaguely historic themes) as opposed to derivative sci-fi or fantasy ones. Why not a melee MMOG set to the Trojan War? A Far Cry/Morrowind hybrid about the settlement of North America? The 'FPS' concept should break from solely gun-based games, too, to perhaps encompass historic conflicts (you can shoot a bow and arrow, can't you?).

A couple of my friends and I had the idea of a Battlefield game set in numerous historical battles. I actually had a pretty neat idea for using a sword that was more than clicking the left button.

But I think that should be saved for another thread.

EzraPound:

a) I listened to an .mp3 of the chant and it clearly sounds Arabic.

It sounds how you want it to sound.
I'm quite sure Hebrew comes from the same region of the world, so it will obviously sound a lot like other languages from the same region.
Unless you actually understand the language, saying how a language sounds is the same as comparing two types of sand, and saying they're the same.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this part of the message, since the rest only shows the American anti-Muslim propaganda has clearly worked a bit too well on this person.

That is a leap of logic, but I don't really have the facts to sure.

Oh and the moon and stars thing, I don't think it means anything. In baldur's gate the cast magic icon was close but in the end it was just a symbol.

All new ideas use old the old, it wouldn't be odd if this was true.

Cheesus333:
Keyword: 'Wikipedia'

You should always take wikinformation with a handful of salt, you know.

Wikipedia is a tertiary source, nothing more.

...............An incredibly good tertiary source that is usually chalk-full of references.........

But I see your point.

All I can say is... so? This just seems like a weak bait attempt because you clearly aren't changing your mind any time soon.

Um, you DO know that you can put beautiful music somewhere WITHOUT assuming that the idea behind it is pejorative?

EDIT: Also, would Azura from the Elder Scrolls series--and forcefully Nerevar--be Muslim?

I honestly thought the Geuredo(spelling please) clan was more like gypsies but from the desert.

EzraPound:

And no, this is not sarcasm. It's me thinking 'Fair enough, 13thC Islam had quite a bit of cool worth stealing'

I think it's good, too. I wish there were more games with historic themes (or vaguely historic themes) as opposed to derivative sci-fi or fantasy ones. Why not a melee MMOG set to the Trojan War? A Far Cry/Morrowind hybrid about the settlement of North America? The 'FPS' concept should break from solely gun-based games, too, to perhaps encompass historic conflicts (you can shoot a bow and arrow, can't you?).

That would be Dark Messiah I believe.

(Sry for dubble poast)

I really have no idea why people are criticizing the idea that Ganon and the Gerudos at large are loosely stylized according to Medieval Islamic culture. I never asserted, after all, that it was pejorative in the least, and it seems fairly obvious to me given the number of allusions - the quasi-Islamic attire, the chant similar enough to a Muslim one it had to be removed, the desert, the moon and stars, 'Ganon' being a Middle Eastern name, etc. Perhaps people here are mistaking me for meaning that Ganon is 'literally' a Muslim, when I'm merely suggesting the thematic parallels between him, the Gerudos, and historic Islam.

wrong page. oops

EzraPound:
I really have no idea why people are criticizing the idea that Ganon and the Gerudos at large are loosely stylized according to Medieval Islamic culture. I never asserted, after all, that it was pejorative in the least, and it seems fairly obvious to me given the number of allusions.

Loosely Stylized? According to the title of this thread you claim "Ganon is Muslim", maybe they are criticizing because instead of just saying there seams to be Arabic, note that does not instantly mean Muslim, symbols in a game, you went ahead and claimed he was Muslim.

This is an interesting idea, maybe the whole star and moon idea came from... hmmm... *looks at night sky* I don't know where I was going with that, don't worry.

I'm leaving this thread due to lack of anything to discuss.

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