Dragon Age Inqusition: Denuvo DRM apparently liable to destorying SSDs

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On the eve of the release of Dragon Age, some worrying information has come out about Denuvo.

Users looking at the read/write details for "Lords of the Fallen" a game that also uses Denuvo found that the DRM system was using "150000 copy/write iterations" in an hour. The user describes that as being "10000 times more than usual."

For those that don't know, SSDs have a limited number of Read/Write cycles, and as such, any program that uses a very high amount of these will lower the lifespan of this hardware, whilst usually this isn't too much of an issue with newer SSDs, older models have significantly short lifespans and as such, a program using this many writes will very quickly render the memory blocks of an SSD unusable.

This is particularly worrying, and I think I'll be installing the game on my hard drive myself, at least until the matter is resolved anyway.

At present, Bioware, nor Denuvo themselves have mentioned anything on the issue, however, it is quickly gaining conversation on various media websites.

Source: Here!

Update as of 22/11/2014: A lot of people reporting this is not the case. Some pretty believable evidence that none of this is taking place. Personally, I'm going to wait a little while long, but since the inception of this thread, it is seeming doubtful that this is the case.

Mine is crashing like no tomorrow.

Link to the original source rather than a repost (in Russian):
http://gamemag.ru/news/drm-zashchita-dragon-ageinquisition-denuvo-antitamper-ubivaet-ssdhdd-101753

His before/after proof (in English):
http://i.imgur.com/V8wiLYR.png

Edit: The proof is 40 minutes of play.

This is concerning. I usually have 1-2 games on my SSD especially the slow loading types, but many games write to the c: temp directory regardless where they are installed. So the fear is that even if DAI is installed onto a HDD, this constant re-encrypting might still happen on the system drive (the SSD).

If this is true, this could get really expensive really quick for them if they don't fix it instantly.

Guess I'll wait a few days to pick up dragon age then

Sounds like Minecraft.

You'd think they'd be more efficient in their coding and read and write to the ram only, and then flush the resulting data to the disk when the application is being shutdown.

Question, does Denuvo install to the game's folder? Or does it do one of those separate, "I'm gonna throw it into appdata or program files"

I usually install the OS to a mechanical HDD, considering how much writing is done, logging events, antivirus records, etc.

Then I'll direct all my steam and origin game locations towards an SSD for fast loading.

Will the dead brains at EA never learn? DRM is worthless. People will pirate your game in any system. Care only about the people who wants to buy your game.

Jiggle Counter:
Sounds like Minecraft.

You'd think they'd be more efficient in their coding and read and write to the ram only, and then flush the resulting data to the disk when the application is being shutdown.

Question, does Denuvo install to the game's folder? Or does it do one of those separate, "I'm gonna throw it into appdata or program files"

It's in the .exe file most likely, which means that it should be installed where the game is. But this is just an educated guess. You asked a very good question.
Another educated guess is that this type of DRM, since it's from the same people that made SecuROM, installs a rootkit, which is usually placed on the same disc and partition as the OS. That would scare the shit out of me.
This DRM might be good, but it will be cracked eventually. That's just unavoidable. And yet again, legitimate customers have to pay. And this time it's their hardware that pays the price, not just their enjoyment of the game.

I wanted to buy this game when it is on a discount (because fuck EA and fuck AAA), but after this bit of news, there's no way that I'm letting any Denuvo game on my system. I did not pay almost $2000 for a PC just to let a corporation treat me like a criminal and destroy my stuff in the process.
I've been very happy lately with my decision not to buy AAA games on launch. I successfully avoided Watch Dogs, AC:U, Far Cry 4 and now DA:I. There's probably more but I can't remember.

MirenBainesUSMC:
Mine is crashing like no tomorrow.

Dragon Age or Lords of The Fallen?

Dragon Age - and my Rig isn't optimum level but it's close to the stated specs. I also got Far Cry 4 and was able to play it after download --- minus some frame rate drop issues.

"lets screw over our legitimate customers to prevent people who werent going to buy our game in the first place from buying it"

fucking EA jesus christ

Another lazy PC port? Color me unsurprised.

Isn't this game on Origin? That's already DRM right there.

Why did EA add even more on top and what purpose could trashing the harddrive possibly have? The HD is not like a DVD that comes in the box and could be tested for the flawed tracks that only an original copy would have.
Fuck these guys.

NuclearKangaroo:
"lets screw over our legitimate customers to prevent people who werent going to buy our game in the first place from buying it"

fucking EA jesus christ

I don't get why publishers don't get this. More people are going to buy their games if they don't put DRM on them, especially DRM like this.

If this doesn't get changed, I don't know if I'll buy DA:I. And if I do I definitely won't be using the Origin copy since I don't my SSD destroyed.

There's DRM, which is its own bugbear for people, but there's never been any actual evidence linking the DRM in question to destroying SSDs, other than one post off an RPG forum, about a different game (a terribly coded disaster of a game at that). FIFA also used that DRM, and by all accounts behaved fine on PCs. If the DRM in question was indeed ritually destroying hard drives, it would have been reported on by now by at least one reputable tech site.

So while I have no iron in the fire one way or the other whether or not someone wants to flip out over EA double-dipping on DRM, freaking out about the game ninja-killing your hard drive is probably just a shade away from hopelessly alarmist.

First time I've heard of this Denuvo thing, they've really slipped under the radar this time as everyone's heard of SecuROM. And Wow, I can't believe it would put this crap on their own Origin platform. Isn't that enough 'DRM'?

Another thing that user's of illegitimate copies of a thing don't have to put up with. Legitimate customers can buy a product and have their SSDs ruined while pirates can play without any such issues.

DRM at its finest: inconveniencing legitimate owners and doing nothing to prevent or deter piracy. Bravo!

Oh wow, i bought lords of the fallen, and am using an intel ssd. This is quite concerning.

Although i havent had any crashes with it, or anythkng else.

The game is shit too. Its like if fable grew up and wanted to be dafksouls, only theres fuckin corridors everywhere and you have to fight the camera. There is no map to tell you where to go. And the difficulty curve is bullshit, im owning the monsters for the first few hours, and then get my ass handed to me by Everything in the catacombs. Then i found the ultraheavy rhogar armor, and the hierloom armor, and Everything is piss easy.

I dont play it anymore lol.

Interesting if true.

If it is true then it's another sad tale of DRM screwing over costumers, like it often does. If not then good, I don't want to see people in this situation. Hopefully if there are problems EA/Bioware sort it out quickly.

I was going to buy DA yesterday when I saw the reddit sub on this. I'll just wait til more info is available.

Don't forget the performance loss, guys.
The Lords Of The Fallen devs themselves admit to a 5% performance loss, which means an actual performance loss of 10-15%.

All to prevent, what?
Do they really think this will be the first DRM system ever created to go un-cracked?
Of course it bloody well won't. Probably before 2015.

Btw what utility can you use to check the number of read/write cycles over a specific interval of time?

madster11:
All to prevent, what?
Do they really think this will be the first DRM system ever created to go un-cracked?
Of course it bloody well won't. Probably before 2015.

"46 days.

That's how long the latest Denuvo-protected EA game (FIFA 14) lasted before being cracked."

Not my words, that's on Denuvo's website (click on the controller on that page, because, apparently, fuck usability).

DRM does only affect the legitimate purchasers of something. Remember those unskippable anti-piracy ads on DVDs, that the pirates never saw because they were ripped out.

Though 46 days would cover the initial launch window where most of a games money is going to be made, those who are going to pirate a game really aren't going to be bothered about having to wait a couple of months in order to play. Others will just wait until inevitable sales.

So basically the honest consumer has to deal with a flurry of DRM headaches and a shortened lifespan for SSDs while pirates can play with 0 worries in any regard? I thought piracy was meant to be the least desirable option, seems our honesty comes at a price.

votemarvel:
Though 46 days would cover the initial launch window where most of a games money is going to be made, those who are going to pirate a game really aren't going to be bothered about having to wait a couple of months in order to play. Others will just wait until inevitable sales.

Doesn't matter.

DRM, insofar as far as copy protection goes, is more about publishers protecting themselves from shareholders and other stakeholders than actually stopping determined people from copying games. The issue is that if a publisher can be shown to have not taken "all reasonable measures" to protect their product, then people with a financial interest in either the company or the product can lawyer up and fuck them hard... and unfortunately 'reasonable' isn't judged on the perspective of gamers but on the perspective of stakeholders and their bottomline.

I agree with you Rhombus, I've said what you have in threads before now. Companies have to be seen to be protecting their copyright.

Piracy can also been seen as a more desirable option because it is often the easier to deal with.

Mass Effect 3 for example. I double click on the desktop icon and Origin has to start. Once that is loaded I now wait for the game to start. At the title screen I hit a button and before the menus fully load I have a DLC check. After that the menus load fully and I get another DLC check. Then I am allowed to start the game.

Have a cracked copy and I double click the desktop icon, the game loads, click a button at the main menu and I can start the game.

There's probably only a few seconds of difference but it just irritates me that the pirates don't have to put up with it at all.

Sure I can grab a cracked .exe but I shouldn't have to. I should, as a paying customer, be having an easier experience than a pirate.

RagingTiger:
So basically the honest consumer has to deal with a flurry of DRM headaches and a shortened lifespan for SSDs while pirates can play with 0 worries in any regard? I thought piracy was meant to be the least desirable option, seems our honesty comes at a price.

At this point I'm wondering if the preferable option for PC game consumers is going to be:

1. Purchasing games legitimately to show that they are honest and are willing to pay.
2. Then downloading a crack or a cracked pirated version (of the game they just bought) so they can play it with no issues.

At this point, most of my boycotts are matters of convenience since I refuse to download another DRM platform other than Steam.

Lovely Mixture:
At this point, most of my boycotts are matters of convenience since I refuse to download another DRM platform other than Steam.

That's the biggest problem. You people want the developers to stop injecting DRM systems that restrict you, while humbly agreeing to using Steam - so far the biggest restricting DRM there is. They see that and know that they can do what they want because sooner or later you're all gonna succumb to it.

Explain to me EA why you need TWO forms of DRM on your games?

Isn't Origin enough for you?

*sigh* and just when I thought you were actually turning around with the "On the House Program" and "Origin Sales" it seems like EA is split into two halves, a good half, and an evil half,

Can't say I'm surprised, but I'm disappointed all the same, oh and game companies for future reference 1 form of DRM is quite enough for me thank you very much, I am going to outright refuse any game that requires me to go through Steam/Origin AND some other crap form of DRM for no reason, that's a big reason why I don't buy Ubisoft games, U-play is a second form of DRM that I don't want to use

*sigh* Well guess I'm not touching DA:I until this is removed... if ever that is...

ninja666:

That's the biggest problem. You people want the developers to stop injecting DRM systems that restrict you, while humbly agreeing to using Steam.

Nice use of "you people"

Humble? No, I have plenty of issues with Valve and Steam. But I'm willing to compromise because it's only one layer of DRM that provides additional services. If I need to register an additional account for some games I can compromise that because because it's one registration.

Uplay, Origin, and whatever Blizzard uses, restrict me to games by one publisher.

ninja666:

- so far the biggest restricting DRM there is.

No that'd be "the game flat out won't work if it's not connected to the internet."

ninja666:

They see that and know that they can do what they want because sooner or later you're all gonna succumb to it.

No. Because I draw the line at places.
Is mine hypocritical? By some standards, yes.
But if the standard is " 1 digital platform + subsequent account registrations" it's not hypocritical.

So far I've held that line.

Lovely Mixture:

ninja666:

That's the biggest problem. You people want the developers to stop injecting DRM systems that restrict you, while humbly agreeing to using Steam.

Nice use of "you people"

Humble? No, I have plenty of issues with Valve and Steam. But I'm willing to compromise because it's only one layer of DRM that provides additional services. If I need to register an additional account for some games I can compromise that because because it's one registration.

I was speaking about people in general, not specifically about you. I just used your statement as an example because it happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Lovely Mixture:

ninja666:

- so far the biggest restricting DRM there is.

No that'd be "the game flat out won't work if it's not connected to the internet."

And with Steam it's "the game flat out won't work if not ran from within the application". Sounds familiar?

ninja666:

And with Steam it's "the game flat out won't work if not ran from within the application". Sounds familiar?

Offline mode, plus a handful of steam games work without the client.

Lovely Mixture:

ninja666:

And with Steam it's "the game flat out won't work if not ran from within the application". Sounds familiar?

Offline mode, plus a handful of steam games work without the client.

"Offline mode" doesn't dismiss you from running the game from within the client. You still need to have it installed. And "a handful of games" is no counterargument because majority of them is still dependent on said client.

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