Left 4 Dead Confession- Team Killing for a Reason

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-The Background-

Since the game's release, there have been countless threads on any given site addressing the douchebaggery that goes on in L4D's multiplayer community- especially with the 360 players like myself. It seems to boil down to few categories- glitching, horrible playing, mic vs no-mic and team-killing. You can make more up, this is just how I simplify it.

As for me- I wear a mic, do not glitch in versus, don't suck, do look out for incapped teammates, and have never ever team-killed. I've also had pretty good luck in finding good people to play with, so I've looked down at all of the complaining about the community, and from the comfortable seat of my high horse, have usually said "well I don't have that problem."

-The Story-

A few days ago, I started a game of No Mercy with one good player, (who will be called Good Guy #2 to protect his identity)notoriouslynx and two guys with no mics. It seemed like the mic-less guys were having a hard time navigating or something. It took a couple minutes to get them down to the first floor and into the street, and they just seemed to stand around alot. It was confusing. The first level took way longer than it should have.

The second level (subway) went somewhat smooth until after the horde that is activated by opening the door (in the room with the generator things.) They wouldn't follow us up the stairs. At this point, Good Guy #2notoriouslynx and I decided to go on ahead. We got to the saferoom and waited, watching as they struggled. Finally, they made it to the street, where one died, leaving the other incapped. Since we couldn't otherwise communicate with them, the decision was made to shoot the remaining one in the head as a statement.

As soon as we spawned in the saferoom of the next level (sewer), the mic-less guys opened fire on us. Good Guy #2notoriouslynx and I raced to the diner while shooting back at them and slammed the door shut. Once they had struggled to the door we were standing behind, we opened fire, incapping one of them, and ran around a corner so the standing one couldn't shoot us. When he went to revive the one who we'd incapped, I went and threw a molotov through the hole we'd shot in the door, leaving both incapped and on fire. They died, dropped the game, and were replaced by to non-wanks.

-The Questions-

- Have I crossed the line and become a team-killing douchebag based on these two morons who's misery I helped put them out of?
- Does it help that I was laughing my ass off as I threw the molotov?
- Was it justified? - We did fire the first shot.
- If you raise the douchebag flag, then how would you handle it? (Can't kick- it would be 2 vs 2)
- Do I have to trade in my high horse for something else now...like a pony?

Nah, you're fine. I don't have Xbox live or anything, never played online multiplayer with mics or anything, but the way you describe it, you're in the clear.

If they don't use mics and can't take the cues you guys give to move on, then on top of that fail miserably, then you have a right to move on without them. And I assume that if you're incapacitated, you need somebody to help you. If you had to go back out and risk losing the game because they were holding you back, getting rid of them Old 'Yeller-style was the best thing you could do.

- Have I crossed the line and become a team-killing douchebag based on these two morons who's misery I helped put them out of?

I think you over-reacted but if they really were as bad as you say I can see how it could have gotten very frustrating.

- Does it help that I was laughing my ass off as I threw the molotov?

I can see how it would have been funny to set them on fire :D

- Was it justified? - We did fire the first shot.

You fired first, your fault, you could have waited or left the game to find new players

- If you raise the douchebag flag, then how would you handle it? (Can't kick- it would be 2 vs 2)

I wouldn't say douchebag, just don't make a habit of it.

- Do I have to trade in my high horse for something else now...like a pony?

No, you have fallen off said horse and others who are on said horse are looking down at you.

P.S I would like to point out I have done something similar to you and so I am on no such animals :D

I think it was incredibly justified, so don't worry about it. People have to do worse than that to get truly blackmarked.

While I cannot say that team-killing is the best or most efficient course of action, these people have no business playing a multiplayer game without the necessary equipment or experience, i.e. mics. The ability to communicate and cooperate is vital in a highly Co-Op necessary game like L4D, and the fact that they couldn't makes them little more than a liability.

All in all, I would have to say that your actions were negative, but at the time necessary.
And that they were just being dick players.

I say your fine a one time lapse wont hurt just dont make a habbit of it

If the zombie apocalypse hits and two mutes are keeping my tight knit group of survivors from escaping, you can bet your sweet ass i'm popping one or both of them, taking their ammo and medkits, and going on my merry way.

Survival of the fittest during the zombie apocalypse, no room for idiots.

edit: more common than team killing i've seen people who during the last map, after getting pummeled, just sit in the saferoom and refuse to move. and you slowly have to tick them down, one hunter swipe at a time, with them typing profanity into the chat log.

That was totally justified, sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the benefit of those around you.

You taught them a valuable lesson. Actually know how to play the game well and get mics.

I wish i could teamkill in DotA from time to time

How did they not have mics? They come with the console.

I am on a low badger

Well, you had mics right? Did you tell the micless guys that you were going to shoot them and let them catch up at the next spawn point?

If you didn't, I'd assume that they assumed that you were being a douche and team-killing for no reason.

ae86gamer:
You taught them a valuable lesson. Actually know how to play the game well and get mics.

I don't think mics are that much of a need to succes since if your a good player you should know what to do and when to do

mics just make it a funnier ...

then again this is only my opinion

ObadiahBlack:
While I cannot say that team-killing is the best or most efficient course of action, these people have no business playing a multiplayer game without the necessary equipment or experience, i.e. mics. The ability to communicate and cooperate is vital in a highly Co-Op necessary game like L4D, and the fact that they couldn't makes them little more than a liability.

All in all, I would have to say that your actions were negative, but at the time necessary.
And that they were just being dick players.

So becuase they didnt have mics they shouldnt be playing the game? Thats whats called a twat statement. I played L4d without a mic for the first month, and while its not as eas yas it could be, its entirely doable so long as your a good player.
Saying that they have no business play it is like saying somebody had no business play Red alert 3 because they havent played 1 and 2

Teamkilling only leads to tears in the end.

Was on CoD4 the other night, and was playing hardcore S+D. One idiot in our team had an RPG and every time we spawned, he fired it at the ground taking out 4-5 of out 6 man team. This is pure idiocy and people like this should be banned.

ObadiahBlack:
While I cannot say that team-killing is the best or most efficient course of action, these people have no business playing a multiplayer game without the necessary equipment or experience, i.e. mics. The ability to communicate and cooperate is vital in a highly Co-Op necessary game like L4D, and the fact that they couldn't makes them little more than a liability.

All in all, I would have to say that your actions were negative, but at the time necessary.
And that they were just being dick players.

If the players didn't have mics then that doesn't mean they shouldn't have been playing the game. I have L4D and I don't have a mic. If somebody doesn't have a mic then it's no reason to stop them playing, that's just discriminatory and douchebaggy (assuming that's a word...). However, if they don't have mics then they should still know how to play the game, if not then you can I suppose be justified for wanting them out. If somebody doesn't have a mic then they should still be able to play provided they're decent players and can actually understand what's happening and what to do, otherwise yes, kick them.

In this case, I think Bofus can be reasonably excused for his actions, since the other two clearly had no idea what to do or where to go. There's a reason the game suggests you practise on the single-player campaign before trying online multiplayer (the bulk of the game) out. However, I would just mention that it's probably best not to do it again...

When everyone in my party (people I didn't know) told me to wait 30 minutes so they could go get high I decided to get my achievement of healing and giving pain pills to team mates.

Yeah, trust me you are not a douchebag. I don't have Xbox live but watch my friend play and now all he does is team kill, it is kind of funny once or twice, but he doesn't even try to play any more. As long is your goal is to actually play the game and not ruin the online experience for anyone else, your ok.

I say you're fine. Shooting the guy in the head when he was already incapped is hardly the same as their response: trying to kill both of you as soon as the next round started. I would have laughed at the molotov too.

Teamkilling them at that point was videogame-self-defense, if anything. You've only crossed into douchebagdom if you continue teamkilling for the fun of it in every round you play from now on.

I'm against outright teamkilling in just about any case, but with Left 4 Dead I'll make an exception. In a way, L4D is a zombie survival simulator. You have to survive the apocalypse alive, it's as simple as that. Where this game becomes very "meta" is where it gets interesting.

Here's a scenario: in your team of four there is one guy that has brought your collective group to the brink of destruction on multiple occasions. He/she keeps making easily avoidable mistakes that bring down the horde and almost cost lives (or possibly does). This person is a liability and a danger to your continued safety and survival. He/she is slowing the group down and at the same time is using up a portion of the group's very limited amount of supplies (in this case first aid, pills and grenades). After thinking about it this way, what would you do?

It's here in the player dynamic that L4D mirror's real life. Humans have a very strong survival instinct and in most cases will do whatever they have to so they can continue to survive. In your case, Teefus, those two people you gunned down were slowing down both you and "Good Guy #2" and were in turn exposing you to unnecessary danger as well as keeping you from being able to get to safety. I'm sure you felt bad about it (hence this thread) but I'm willing to bet that both you and "#2" were able to survive without any major problems after that.

In damn near every case team-killing hurts the team. It wastes respawn tickets, it hurts a defense effort, it prevents captures, whatever. In Left 4 Dead, though, it could either hurt the team or help it. Sometimes you may be in a position where you have so sacrifice one person for the greater good of the entire group.

~Van

johnman:

ObadiahBlack:
While I cannot say that team-killing is the best or most efficient course of action, these people have no business playing a multiplayer game without the necessary equipment or experience, i.e. mics. The ability to communicate and cooperate is vital in a highly Co-Op necessary game like L4D, and the fact that they couldn't makes them little more than a liability.

All in all, I would have to say that your actions were negative, but at the time necessary.
And that they were just being dick players.

So because they didn't have mics they shouldn't be playing the game? That's what's called a twat statement. I played L4D without a mic for the first month, and while it's not as easy as it could be, it's entirely doable so long as you're a good player.
Saying that they have no business play it is like saying somebody had no business play Red alert 3 because they haven't played 1 and 2

Not even close. Not having a mic in L4D is equivalent to tying an arm behind your back. Now if you were besieged by the undead on every side, I'm pretty sure that your fellow survivors would be pissed at your "Look guys, one hand!" antics. It has nothing to do with knowing the back-story of the game (which L4D has next to none anyway).

If you know exactly what you are doing, it's not quite so bad, but in this case it totally was and would have prevented the situation. I also understand that some people can't afford mics.

P.S. I corrected the spelling in your post for you.

ObadiahBlack:
While I cannot say that team-killing is the best or most efficient course of action, these people have no business playing a multiplayer game without the necessary equipment or experience, i.e. mics. The ability to communicate and cooperate is vital in a highly Co-Op necessary game like L4D, and the fact that they couldn't makes them little more than a liability.

All in all, I would have to say that your actions were negative, but at the time necessary.
And that they were just being dick players.

There's a big difference between mic, and not being a team player. I play on the PC (admittedly the relevance is not massive) and it's fine in teams without a single mic. You can watch the other players and react accordingly... and I'm not lowskilled.

Team killing is by my book, never justified... unless you get killed first. You can get pissed and leave if you can't vote the players off.

you could have just, you know, kicked them from the game, right?

DeadMG:

ObadiahBlack:
While I cannot say that team-killing is the best or most efficient course of action, these people have no business playing a multiplayer game without the necessary equipment or experience, i.e. mics. The ability to communicate and cooperate is vital in a highly Co-Op necessary game like L4D, and the fact that they couldn't makes them little more than a liability.

All in all, I would have to say that your actions were negative, but at the time necessary.
And that they were just being dick players.

There's a big difference between mic, and not being a team player. I play on the PC (admittedly the relevance is not massive) and it's fine in teams without a single mic. You can watch the other players and react accordingly... and I'm not lowskilled.

I don't summarily kick non-mics, and it's usually not a problem- as long as they're decent at the game it doen't make that much of a difference (same goes for people with mics.) The only real issue for me is cases like this where they also happen to be complete losers. We would've kicked, but we couldn't have got the votes.

Vanguard1219:
I'm against outright teamkilling in just about any case, but with Left 4 Dead I'll make an exception. In a way, L4D is a zombie survival simulator. You have to survive the apocalypse alive, it's as simple as that. Where this game becomes very "meta" is where it gets interesting.

-Winning example snipped to save space-

That's a freaking awesome way of thinking about it. You should charge a fee for every time I'm going to use that example.

UNKNOWNINCOGNITO:

ae86gamer:
You taught them a valuable lesson. Actually know how to play the game well and get mics.

I don't think mics are that much of a need to succes since if your a good player you should know what to do and when to do

mics just make it a funnier ...

then again this is only my opinion

Seriously, 90% of the time, the mic is there to say funny stuff, but when you're all at a window, and you say "I'm gonna throw this pipebomb- get ready to run through the area," it helps to know if everyone is on the same page. I still don't discriminate against mic-less.

Jumplion:
Well, you had mics right? Did you tell the micless guys that you were going to shoot them and let them catch up at the next spawn point?

If you didn't, I'd assume that they assumed that you were being a douche and team-killing for no reason.

I used to try to communicate by speaking loudly into the mic hoping that the TV is up loud enough for them to hear me, but it seemed like all I was doing was yelling in the ear of everyone else. Guess I could have in this case.

Team killing is justified if the players are an INCREDIBLE liability. As in, getting smokered and huntered every three seconds, willingly seperating from the group and then expecting to be saved, and startling the Witch without trying to chrome.

they might have only started to play the game, and didn't know what to do, this sort of thing wouldn't happen on PC, you can type on that bad boy.

Bofus Teefus:
-The Background-

Since the game's release, there have been countless threads on any given site addressing the douchebaggery that goes on in L4D's multiplayer community- especially with the 360 players like myself. It seems to boil down to few categories- glitching, horrible playing, mic vs no-mic and team-killing. You can make more up, this is just how I simplify it.

As for me- I wear a mic, do not glitch in versus, don't suck, do look out for incapped teammates, and have never ever team-killed. I've also had pretty good luck in finding good people to play with, so I've looked down at all of the complaining about the community, and from the comfortable seat of my high horse, have usually said "well I don't have that problem."

-The Story-

A few days ago, I started a game of No Mercy with one good player (who will be called Good Guy #2 to protect his identity) and two guys with no mics. It seemed like the mic-less guys were having a hard time navigating or something. It took a couple minutes to get them down to the first floor and into the street, and they just seemed to stand around alot. It was confusing. The first level took way longer than it should have.

The second level (subway) went somewhat smooth until after the horde that is activated by opening the door (in the room with the generator things.) They wouldn't follow us up the stairs. At this point, Good Guy #2 and I decided to go on ahead. We got to the saferoom and waited, watching as they struggled. Finally, they made it to the street, where one died, leaving the other incapped. Since we couldn't otherwise communicate with them, the decision was made to shoot the remaining one in the head as a statement.

As soon as we spawned in the saferoom of the next level (sewer), the mic-less guys opened fire on us. Good Guy #2 and I raced to the diner while shooting back at them and slammed the door shut. Once they had struggled to the door we were standing behind, we opened fire, incapping one of them, and ran around a corner so the standing one couldn't shoot us. When he went to revive the one who we'd incapped, I went and threw a molotov through the hole we'd shot in the door, leaving both incapped and on fire. They died, dropped the game, and were replaced by to non-wanks.

-The Questions-

- Have I crossed the line and become a team-killing douchebag based on these two morons who's misery I helped put them out of?
- Does it help that I was laughing my ass off as I threw the molotov?
- Was it justified? - We did fire the first shot.
- If you raise the douchebag flag, then how would you handle it? (Can't kick- it would be 2 vs 2)
- Do I have to trade in my high horse for something else now...like a pony?

I think the fact that you care means that you're fine.

Some people need to learn the hard way. While I've never been the first to attack a teammate on purpose (and usually don't get attacked on purpose) I have helped teammates TK someone who was attacking them. Griefers don't have a place in such a small team, and it's better to be done with them.

Hopefully your two bad teammates went back to single player to learn the maps.

Oh, and I'd laugh at throwing the molotov too. I'd say it was justified from a self-preservation standpoint (and a hilarious one).

well dude ya gotta do what ya gotta do. and sometimes assholes have gotta be delt with. and asses are always going to be around. they gotta learn!

Technically it's a recognise strategy for anyone with less than 50% health. Either they get into the safehouse and have to heal, or die and respawn with more than 50% health.

So yeah, you can justify it.

Hmmm...

The way you put it, I would've supported you. You DID make sure to notify them of your plans, right?

your fine. by slowing you down they were team killing as well just not in a literal sense.

No, no line crossing. In a game like L4D and RE5 a mic is 100% necessary. If I am playing RE5 and get a partner with no mic, I send a message asking them to use a mic, if they don't I boot and send them a friendly message reminding them that this is a co-op game and an essential part of co-op is communication with your team. Since I have not mastered telepathy, the mic is a necessity.

The only thing I would have done differently if I were you was to send them a message between missions as to why you shot them, and to get a mic.

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